Cruel. It was all just so cruel.

I can't imagine Corey will be happy as a Brewer. I wonder why he approved the trade.

Well, I'll be the first to give him a standing "O" when he comes to the Metrodome for his first interleague game. Best of luck to you, Corey.

#@$#@$#@@#$@#$

-Batgirl

Why won't Corey be happy with the Brewers? They have a better team than the Twins do.

I wouldn't say that, Gmoney. That's stretching it a bit.

Baseball can be so fickle to us fans, but Mr. K will be making millions and playing lots of baseball when he's healthy, so no tears should be shed for him. I wish him all the best in Milwaukee.

The Brewers have a better team than the Twins? I've never heard anyone say that before.

He's some what right, the Brewers are almost better than the Twins. I mean have you seen their roster, they have Tony Gywnn.

I'm afraid I jinxed it. When I wrote "I won't believe it until I see Koskie in a Brewers cap on ESPN," I didn't mean I wanted that to happen.

But it's for the best. He'll get a chance to play the whole year and prove to people that he can stay healthy on grass (or not). The best he could do is play part time with the Twins. And the Twins couldn't afford what the Brewers paid, which ends up being $11 million for two years plus the option buyout (or, gasp, the option). That's at least $4 million more than the Twins budget.

The Brewers aren't paying the whole contract. As I posted in the other topic, the Blue Jays are supposedly paying HALF of Koskie's remaining contract. TR may have blown this one big time.

On the other hand, when I am in Milwaukee for a non-Twins game, it will be nice to root for Koskie and see how well he does.

"The Blue Jays are supposedly paying HALF of Koskie's remaining contract."

I haven't seen that verified. The final number has not been disclosed publically. But assuming it's true, it's more than Ricciardi offered Ryan. The deal Ryn rejected was that the Blue Jays would pay $3 million of Koskie's remaining contract, which leaves the Twins on the hook for $8 million over two years, plus an option buyout of $550,000. At most, the Twins have $2 million left this year, if you reason that Ryan was willing to take on Jones' arbitraion contract and signed White instead for $2 million less. That means the Twins would be on the hook for $6.55 million for one year of a part-time player. I don't blame Ryan for rejecting that offer.

Again, assuming it's half, Melvin got a better deal than Ryan rejected, especially when you consider that the player involved was released by the Twins last year because he couldn't make the New Britain Rock Cats.

I think the Brewers are better that's just my opinion. The Twins have a better pitching but not by as much as the Brewers offense is better than the Twins.

Toronto paper has it that the Brewers are on the hook for 2 million a year for the next 2 years and the whole option year if he reaches the number of PA's needed (unlikely). Why couldn't Koskie be more than a part time player for the Twins? Are you saying he's worse than Tony Batista?

Wow. Now there's THREE games I need to get too. KC for Doug, Cubs for Jones, Mil for Koskie.

...

"Why couldn't Koskie be more than a part time player for the Twins? Are you saying he's worse than Tony Batista?"

Because he hasn't been one since 2002. Here are his games played numbers the last three years: 135, 118, 97. In 2003, he played half the year with a broken hammate bone in his wrist, which, if he'd told the coaches, would have further limited his play (it did, in a way, because he didn't hit a homer after he broke it in July). So if you get him, you have to use him less than full time to keep him healthy. If you try to use him full time, he'll likely develop back and hamstring problems; and he's more likely to hurt his hand or wrist throwing his body around. So you need a good backup (Batista) if you get him.

And we don't know if Ryan was offered the same deal Melvin was. If Ryan was offered that deal and he still rejected it, fie upon him. But Ricciardi might have offered Melvin a better deal to keep Koskie out of the AL. We just don't know. All we know is that Ryan rejected the deal that would have committed him to at least $8.5 million. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Do we know how much Toronto offered to pay the Twins?

All I know is that the $3MM number is thrown around because someone and I think it was a reporter used his calculator to see the difference between the contract the Twins offered and what Toronto signed him for.

But I don't think anyone from either organization has/had confirmed that number.

I dont' get the thought that he traded Koskie to the NL for a lesser deal just to keep him out of the AL. Isn't the job of a GM to get the best deal for his team. Your telling me they thought so little of Koskie to trade him and 7 million cash for Brian Wolfe, yet they are so worried about him haunting them down the road that the took a lesser deal, I'm not buying that.

I'd take 100 games of Koskie and 60 games of you playing 3B than 162 games of Tony Batista. At least youd have 100 games of above average play instead of 162 games on Batista being the worst 3B in the leauge.

Milwaukee pays Koskie 2.25 millin per year for 2 years plus his whole option in 2008 of 6.75 millin I think. That is if he happens to have 1200 PA's over the next 2 years.

Batista is not the worst: I'm not saying he's great or anything, but he's servicable. I'd rather have Batista (.298 OBP) than any regular third baseman in the Central :Crede (.303 OBP), Boone (.297 OBP), Inge (.299 OBP), Teahan (.309 OBP). At least Batista will hit you 30 HRs and 100 RBI while failing to get on base at a league average clip.

And I'd rather have 162 games of Batista than 100 games of Koskie and 62 games of Castro.

ZiPS projections for 2006

Tony Batista. 237 .270 .392

Teahen* .260 .324 .380

Boone .242 .304 .383

Crede .256 .311 .437

Inge .261 .327 .411

Yup Batista and that .270 OBP is the best option of the group. When comparing you use Batista's career OBP, which has been decling while uses the other players season OBP which are on the upswing sinc they are 5-6 years younger than Tony (except Boone). Boone's career OBP is higher than Batista's too.

for comparison sakes

Castro ss .244 .272 .362
Batista 3b .237 .270 .392
Rodriguez# 2b .281 .343 .374
Tiffee# 3b .266 .308 .421
Williams# 3b .256 .305 .416

I'd rather have Castro for 162 games than Batista considering Castro's excellent defense.

Koskie is a great fit for the Brewers, especially for the deal we got. He's not expected to be an everyday player, so any injury history is not so much of a concern.

Thanks for not taking him!

"I'd rather have Castro for 162 games than Batista considering Castro's excellent defense."

It's tough to make up a difference of 26 HRs and 60 RBI's with defense.

And yes, I did make a mistake with Boone's OBP, using his season average last year instead of his career average (.327). But I used career averages for the others, so they're apples to apples.

I'm not a fan of ZiPS projections. They're at best a rough estimate based too much on age bell curves. There are plenty of outliers, including Batista. His power has not declined one iota since his prime. But even assuming those projections, I'd rather have Batista. He'll give you an ISO of .200 while the others might give you an ISO of .100. If you give ZiPS credence, you're original claim that Batista is the worst third baseman in the league is refuted by the ZiPS projections for Boone. Their ZiPS are quite close and Batista has more power.

I'm still amazed at how people use the utmost hyperbole to describe a number 8 hitter who hits 30 HRs and knocks in 100 runs. The Twins won the division with Blanco in that spot. If you take the Batista signing out of context, it's not good. But in the context of the budget, allowing the Twins to acquire Castillo and White, it's not bad.

Milwaukee has a better lineup, eh?

C - Mauer > Miller - Miller doesn't have an appreciable edge, whereas Mauer has steals and that defensive arm.
1B - Morneau ~ Fielder - Does Morneau settle in in year #2 and does Fielder take to the starting job?
2B - Castillo > Weeks - You may get a few more homers out of Weeks, but I'll take the considerably better average and OBP of Castillo. Oh, and the Gold Gloves.
SS - Bartlett ~ Hardy - I give Hardy the slight edge since Bartlett had a rough start last year. Then again, who's more prone to a sophomore slump?
3B - Batista LF - Stewart CF - Hunter > Clark - While Clark puts up respectable numbers, Torii outstripped him in a little over half a season. Oh, and the Gold Gloves.
RF - White/Cuddyer/Kubel ~ Jenkins - It's tough to call this one since we're not sure who will be spending the majority of time there next year, but game-for-game these guys will be just as tough in the lineup.

Milwaukee has a better lineup, eh?

C - Mauer > Miller - Miller doesn't have an appreciable edge, whereas Mauer has steals and that defensive arm.
1B - Morneau ~ Fielder - Does Morneau settle in in year #2 and does Fielder take to the starting job?
2B - Castillo > Weeks - You may get a few more homers out of Weeks, but I'll take the considerably better average and OBP of Castillo. Oh, and the Gold Gloves.
SS - Bartlett ~ Hardy - I give Hardy the slight edge since Bartlett had a rough start last year. Then again, who's more prone to a sophomore slump?
3B - Batista LF - Stewart CF - Hunter > Clark - While Clark puts up respectable numbers, Torii outstripped him in a little over half a season. Oh, and the Gold Gloves.
RF - White/Cuddyer/Kubel ~ Jenkins - It's tough to call this one since we're not sure who will be spending the majority of time there next year, but game-for-game these guys will be just as tough in the lineup.

Sorry about the double post. It dropped the 3B and LF comparisons. Interesting, cause those are the two where I gave Milwaukee the edge.

My take

1) Catcher Twins easily win this since it's Mauer versus Miller.

2) 1st baseman the 2 up and coming stars in the leauge I'll say it's a tie since we don't know what to expect from either. Milwaukee also has Branyan where the Twins have what Garrett Jones behind Morneau?

3) Slight edge Twins..although I could lean towards giving it to Weeks since I'm worried about Castillo's leg injuries from last year and the turf.

4) 3rd base I give to Milwaukee since a dead body is bound to be more valuabe than Tony Batista.

5) SS Even for the time being although I think Bill Hall will take over for Hardy sometime this season and outperform Bartlett.

6) LF Brewers win by a long ways.

7) Offensively I give this a toss up. Hunter has a little more Slugging while brady clark has better OBP. Defensively slight edge to Hunter but not as much as you think. According to BPro's Rate2 D stats Clar was 104 last year while Torii was 101 with 100 being average.

8) Give advantage to Jenkins slightly.

Pretty even just my opinion the Brewers are better offensively. Probably since they have the best player in Carlos Lee on their team.

Just my take.

If a Brewer homer may jump in.

C- Yep, Mauer. Not even close.

1B- Toss up, Fielder hasn't proven it over a season and Morneau is up and down. Both have incredible power.

2B- Weeks. Castillo has had a good career and is the better defender, but Weeks has WAY more pop and over a whole season is going to hit 30 HR, 100 RBI and have 30 SB.

SS- Hardy. He's not only a defensive stud, but over the last 4 months of last year hit .343/.432/.775 OPS, leaps and bounds ahead of Bartlett. Hardy just had such a crappy start that his season total numbers don't reflect how he turned around his hitting.

3B- Hall. Last season Hall showed how good he is and like GMoney said, a dead body is better than Batista.

LF- Lee, next question

CF- Tough one, but I'll give it to Torii.

RF- Jenkins. He's much like Hunter, streaky power hitter with great defense. Take that anyday over a platoon situation.

There you have it 5-2-1, advantage Brewers offensively.

Pitching is a whole different story, the Twins got that one.

Damn, I had a guest room all set up for him, and he moves next door instead. Boo.

Ah, well, good luck to ya, Corey.

One reason you gotta love Koskie: the press asks him about the trade, a move possibly loaded with emotion since it takes him out of his home country one year after he signed to play for Canada's team, and one of his first comments is simply, "Milwaukee has one of my favorite steakhouses."

Tears well up in my eyes.

Thanks for that, frightwig--that's priceless.

My poor Jeb.

Baseball Think Factory's take on the deal

Corey Koskie had a disappointing, injury-filled 2005 season. I can understand a team trying to contend not wanting to take a chance on Koskie if they can give him away, but the Blue Jays are paying the vast majority of Koskie's contract to not play for them. If they're not saving a heap of dough (it appears the Brewers are only paying 4-5 million of the remaining 2 years!) then it's a far better idea to play Koskie at 3rd and hope he returns to being a quality player. And before 2005, he was undoubtedly a quality player - every year from 1999-2004 was at least a very good season for Koskie.

For the Brewers, there's nothing to dislike about this pickup. They get a high-upside 3B for much less than they would pay on the open market (2 years, $4-5 million total) and for that bargain, only give up a waiver-wire pitcher who is unlikely to ever help a major league team.

Thumbs up for Doug Melvin. ZiPS likes this trade better than I do.

2006 ZiPS Projection - Corey Koskie
---------------------------------------------------------
AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG
---------------------------------------------------------
402 54 95 23 1 14 53 55 105 5 .236 .336 .403

Great...now we'll just have to worry about his arteries and cholesterol level.

Well...best of luck to you Corey.
Just remember, chicken and fish are delicious too, and they probably do a pretty good job preparing them at that steakhouse you like.

You could also consider the occasional vegetarian dish, but I don't know if they'll have much to choose from at a steakhouse.

Just be sure to have a nice, big salad.

I was so happy when he came to Toronto. The baseball gods had answered my prayers when the hockey gods had not. I was all set to see the opening series in Toronto and go get a Jays shirt with Koskie's name on it. I will still go for the Jays, but this new realization made my heart break further.
My sympathies, Jeb.

I think we need to let the past go and focus on the future. Like him or not, Batista is our man and no amount of crying will bring Koskie back. Ten years from now we'll barely remember Batista OR Koskie.

Barely remember Corey Koskie? BARELY remember Corey Koskie? Barely REMEMBER Corey Koskie? Barely remember COREY KOSKIE? EH? Man, are you mad?!?

As for Ass-Batista, I wish I could already forget him. *knocks on wood* Eh, who's playing 3rd base for the Twins next season? Yeah, that feels better.

Yes, anyone who would even suggest that the Twins faithful would fail to remember our dear, departed Corey is obviously not being very appeciative of all that he brought to our team. Geez, I'm still trying (unsuccessfully, I might add) to destroy the terrifying memory of Scott Stahoviak; how could I forget the dazzling, albeit fragile, Mr. Koskie? This deal could have made the whole offseason seem so much more productive...instead, we are left once again to cling to the dreams of what might be, rather than basking in the glow of what was. Life as a Twins fan is never easy.

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