Let's put it this way: 30 years from now, people will still be reading _Ball Four_. Bouton hits the nail on the head when he basically says that it's a snapshot of a given era, ala a Civil War soldier. It's a inside look at the ins and outs of what I'm confident will remain the great American game. Bouton is damned well aware of this.

30 years from now, _Juiced_ will just be a footnote. Yeah, it's fun to read stories about needles in buttcheeks and see names splashed all over the pages, but it's just a tell-all. No insight, no painstaking details, no mastery of the literary craft.

(I got way behind on my reading due to a writing project of my own I'm working on and just finished the book Friday)

BitchSoxPride,
Ilk

Hey! I sent the link to the Tom Kelly photo a couple of days ago!

LOL

Win Twins! (anxiously awaiting April 8 - which is 2 days after Bert Blyleven's birthday and 1 day after mine!)

I see Bouton has a page on IMDb, the Internet movie database. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0100357/

Has anybody seen Bouton's only film credit, The Long Goodbye? I will have to check it out. An online reviewer on Amazon (from Prior Lake) says Bouton is the best part of this Robert Altman movie:

The highlight of this movie is the screen debut of former Yankees pitcher and "Ball Four" author Jim Bouton. (Bouton wrote a what is rightly considered the most influential sports book of his time--one that literally changed how a generation of boys and young men looked at the world of sports. No small accomplishment, that.) His performance in "The Long Goodbye" is sublime and deserves a second look. Why Bouton never found added fame as an actor is hard to understand. Perhaps some young director will see this film and seek out Bouton for a long overdue acting role.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6302121582/002-7351801-6278416?v=glance

Is Bouton really a master of the literary craft? I brook no argument that the book was insightful and detailed, not to mention a fun read. Its tone is a far cry from "tell-all," but I'm not really sure it qualifies as "literature." (Bear in mind that I'm an English Minor here, an actor, and a Shakespeare "expert." - I'm picky.)

Bouton wrote his book by voice-taping it, and then it was typed out by a transcriptionist. He and his editor cut and shaped it for ages afterwords, or so I understand from the prefaces and stuff in my edition. (What I wouldn't give to read ALL the stories he originally taped...) It's colloquial, but not really high art...

I'm not in any way saying its badly written. I'm just saying that I don't think even Bouton himself would claim to be a master of the literary craft. But the book was never intended as such. Sorry to be nitpicky. Perhaps this is a topic worth discussion?

What I really want to know is who is the modern day Jim Bouton? Who is the goofy guy, the thorn in the side, everything he describes himself as? Who is "that guy" on the Twins? Ford? Mulholland? Romero?

Whatcha think?

NY-Brian

off topic but why never a mention of augie ojeda on this site. he will earn a spot in the middle infield by the all-star break. wait and see.

Dear Jamie,

We are all Augie fans and would like to see him on the team.

Sincerely,
BG

"Mastery of the literary craft" was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Oops.

Ilk

(who minored in American Lit)

It appears that Matthew Broderick would be the most logical person to cast in case anyone ever wanted to make a movie on Tom Kelly's life.

Who should play TK in the movie?

I say Michael Clarke Duncan.

Dead-on double.

Leslie Nielsen

YF

Kelly: We need to get back to the stadium immediately
Puckett: The stadium? What is it?
Kelly: It's a large building where tens of thousands of people congregate to view sporting events, but that's not important right now.

Sorry, couldn't help myself.
YF

Me: Surely, you are excused.

YF: Thank You, and don't call me Shirly.

Hey, for fun I spent my lunch the library to check what the Minneapolis Tribune had to say after Bouton's disastrous start against the Twins (Part 6: "Shut Up," July 19.) I believe that was Bouton's only start in '69 and he gave up 6 hits - including 2 homers - 2 walks, and 5 earned runs in 3 2/3 innings.

Unfortunately, the Saturday game in Seattle was a night game and went 16 innings before it was stopped tied at 7-7.

There's nothing about it until the Monday July, 21, 1969 paper. Bouton's game was completed on Sunday afternoon, 11-7 Twins in 18 innings, and then the regular Sunday game was played. Jim Perry got both wins.

The stories don't really mention Bouton, darn. A young, but just as funny-looking Sid Hartman tells us Tony Oliva missed the Seattle series with chicken pox.

I noticed some other things were happening on July 20, 1969, besides Bouton's big setback. That's the day Apollo 11 landed on the moon; Nixon was getting ready for his trip to China; and the paper reported that Ted Kennedy crashed his car in a pond.

"Bouton wrote his book by voice-taping it, and then it was typed out by a transcriptionist. He and his editor cut and shaped it for ages afterwords, or so I understand from the prefaces and stuff in my edition. (What I wouldn't give to read ALL the stories he originally taped...) It's colloquial, but not really high art..."
-----------------

So are you saying that William Burroughs or Jack Kerouac could not be considered High Art? High Art is defined by the process of creation? Shakespeare is High Art because he didn't use a transcriptionist? Ye olde soap opera scribe didn't put his work through an editing process?

Well, I guess that explains some of the deus ex machina and slapdash endings where everyone either gets married or killed. I always sensed the whiff of a first draft by a writer in a hurry to go hit the pubs. Who wants to be writing when a Dark Lady in a dark corner at the Cock & Bull awaits? :)

Cheers, Bill.

How'd we miss Santana's birthday on Sunday? Happy Birthday, Mr. President.

Hey, talldrinkowater, thanks for my first Bert Blyleven's Birthday reminder of the season.

I screamed my first "Oh shut UP, Dazzle Man!" at the radio last week.

Baseball = good.

Dear Wig-

I didn't mean it like that, as I'm sure you are aware. Funny post, though.

I suppose I was just trying to illustrate the fact that this book is a DIARY, a mostly stream-of-consciousness collection of thoughts and stories. Never does Bouton lay any claim to this being a work of "literature." His use of language, while accesable and easy-to-read, is not attempting any sort of "high art."

And I don't see that as a cut. I'm often annoyed by the pretensions often evident in "literature." And I loved this book. But we should treat it as it is and avoid the temptation to consider it as something it is not. I do agree with the designation of it as an influential and important book.

Using the way in which it was written as a support of this argument was perhaps a mistake. You make good points.

NY-Brian

I believe that memoirs, diaries and letters can also be artful and respected literary forms. Are the letters from St. Paul less of an art form than other books of the Bible? What is a collection of letters and journals but an immediate form of autobiography, the telling of one's own life story?

Whether Bouton is a great storyteller, Batlings may debate and disagree. But in talking about the book, and possibly trying to classify it or put it into a context, how do you make the distinction between what is Literature and what is not?

It is my considered opinion that it is not the author, at the time of writing, or the critics of that same time period, that determine what is "art" or "classical literature" and what is not. Time is what tells that story.

When did Pirate SS Jack Wilson model a Seattle Pilots uniform, and why?

I think that Art must know best.

He is named "Art," after all.

(And beyond that, I think he's dead on.)

NYB

Time itself doesn't give us a definitive perspective on art. The literary canon is a fluid concept. Works may move in and out of favor from one generation to the next. I'm just curious to know, since you questioned whether the book should be taken seriously as Literature, how do you draw those boundaries and what makes a book true Art?