If he wants to alternate I sure hope he switches Ford and Hunter at some time. Poor Torii likes to hit into double plays too much for my liking.

Look at the lineup like this:

Outfield, Infield,
Outfield, Infield, DH,
Outfield, Infield, Light Bat, Light Bat.

And if Bartlett's up to it, Light Bat #1 might not be so light.

If you were as ugly as that bunch would you want to look in the mirror?

I like the lineup - I hope it keeps Torii focused without making him think too hard. At least he shouldn't think he has to do everything himself and knock every pitch out of the park now.

Here in Boston the start of the "comeback" of the Red Sox in the regular season is attributed to Jason Varitek sticking his glove in A-Rod's face in July. We _were_ dead in the water before that happened, and we went from there to the big trade to the big charge. So there might be some truth in it.

Great site. Recommended it to my Twins fan friends in MN.

Following GMoney's thoughts:

I would never claim to be knowledgable about the Twins, but it seems to me that Hunter is a bigger power threat than Ford, and Ford is a better contact hitter. Of course, both of these perceptions could be wrong, but if they aren't, why not switch them up in the lineup? Is it just because Jones isn't enough protection for Hunter? Also, isn't Jones fast? Why bury his speed at the 6 spot where it would go largely wasted? In that case, you might as well bat him 9th to connect him to the top of the order...

Just some thoughts...

YankeeFan

YankeeFan,

Concerning Jones, I believe he's considered a bit of a power hitter. Not a true power hitter, mind you, but he did hit 24 HR last year. As for his speed being an issue, I think the perception might be that he needs more discipline at the plate before this becomes a factor.

mmmarkiep,

In that case, I would definitely move him out of the 6 spot...having Cuddyer, SS, and Rivas "protect" him will not help his plate discipline...

Having a OBP machines like Stewart, Mauer and Ford, however... that's more likely to get Jones some pitches to hit.

Am I completely way off base about this?

YankeeFan

guys, guys, guys...

I we have learned have only learned one thing about Gardy in the last season is that he will change the line-up order in the blink of an eye to adapt to the mentality of the guy holding the bat. I think this line-up is meant to suit the reality of how the guys are thinking - not their potential. And when they realize potential, he will change it up.

I know I couldn't hardly keep up with all the switch ups last year... why do we worry about setup #1 out 45????

I wondered about the Ford/Hunter positioning as well. It makes no sense, unless (1) you believe that the team "leader" should hit in the three hole, and (2) you are somewhat skeptical that Lew will repeat his 2004 performance. For my money, Torii simply doesn't have the plate discipline to be a number-three hitter.

The lineup makes sense to me. Hunter is pretty well protected in front of Morneau, two of the three best OBP guys are hitting 1-2 (unlike that dreadful period when Jones was hitting second), and Ford is probably the best guy to protect Morneau ... even though he's not a huge power hitter, he's a tough at-bat and he's got that "gap power." I think having Hunter or Jones bat after Morneau is a nice incentive for the opposing manager to walk Morneau and take a chance on striking out Hunter or Jones. I agree that it makes sense in a way for Jones to hit ninth, but there's more of a chance that Juan Castro will hit cleanup. There's no way Gardenhire is going to bat one of his veteran leaders ninth, no matter what kind of sense it makes. Too much of a stigma about being the #9 hitter.

All things considered, this lineup would be very good. I just hope #s 1-4 stay healthy enough that we see it about 120 times.

Hmmm... methinks Mr. Stewart needs a nickname...

Wow...if words could describe how sick I am of the Bitch Sox bitching about Sweetcheeks.

An interesting lineup but I'm not going to get too attached with it. I do like Ford being down in the lineup a bit. It is unreasonable to expect the same breakout performance in year 2. Let him get some history before putting him in a higher pressure spot. Hunter is the team leader. I feel more comfortable with him in that spot.

My biggest concern is Mauer in the 2 spot. Granted, it is not like we have a sure fit, but I find it hard to see a catcher running when the situation calls for it. This isn't a knock on Mauer. The guy has potential. Frankly, with as rapidly as he has been brought up, maybe it would be a good idea for him to get comfortable. If need be, bring Jones to the two spot. Yes, that would be unusual. But I think he can handle it. Besides, letting the Soul Patrol lead off might spark some energy.

As I was typing that Jones hitting second comment, I was having flashbacks too. I just think that enough things have changed that it would make sense. I often wonder how Jones would hit if he were not labeled as a "power guy". And lets face it, in the last couple years, he has had to fill that role.

Jones #2, with Hunter #3? Please. Neither one get on base remotely enough to be anywhere near those spots. They make far too many outs to be in a lineup that high that includes good OBP guys like Morneau, Ford, Stewart, and Mauer.

What this team needs is to have a right handed hitter hit fourth. Unfortunately, right now the only options appear to be Hunter or Cuddyer. I also think that Ford, being the faster runner, should leadoff with the better bat control of Stewart hitting second. The lineup that makes most sense is: 1) Ford; 2) Stewart; 3) Maur; 4) Hunter; 5) Morneau; 6) Cuddyer; 7) Jones; 8) Punto; 9) Rivas. Cuddyer can move to fourth if he goes on one of his hot streaks.

my lineup notion

1- Jonesie (either we lead 1-0, or Stewie is up with one out).
2- Stewie
3- JoJo Qwik-Swing(tm) McMauMau
4- The Toriid One
5- The Doctor
6- Cuddiest
7- LEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
8- a shortstop
9- the other guy

What makes a lineup card sticky (now that Pat Borders isn't around to spit on it) is that the current roster has a bunch of potential 2 and 3 hitters, one legit clean-up guy (in his second season), a couple of all-or-nothing free swingers, and (to quote the first season theme song to Gilligan's Island..in black-and-white) "the rest".

Andre -- one thing I like about the Twins is that they play a team game. I am certain that if it is best for the team, he would be willing to bat 9th...wouldn't he?

Greg and double-A, looking at your lineups, I don't think you have enough confidence in your team. Lew 7th? I understand you might want to take the pressure off of him to produce in the #3 spot, but an outright demotion under Cuddyer? And Ford 1/Stewart 2? Why any lineup card involving the Twins would have anyone other than Stewart at the leadoff spot is beyond me. Again, I disclaim any intimate knowledge of the Twins, but Stewart is one of the (if not THE) most dynamic tablesetters in baseball (go ahead, argue Damon...I'd take Stewart anyday). The team seems to go right when Stewart gets on, which seems like every at-bat.

Then again, what do I know?

YankeeFan

1) Isn't this fun?
2) Gee, I just realized I'm going to miss Pat Borders. Wasn't it cute when he stole that base?
3) Analyzing a proposed Gardy lineup is sort of like finding faces in the clouds. I wouldn't even count on seeing this on opening day let alone long afterwards.
4) But isn't this FUN?

Smitty,

Anything baseball-related to calm the jittering until Thursday...

YF

I don't know who this guy, Al, is, but he knows his stuff, and should have his own blog. When Gardenshire says 1.5 innings,to what , exactly, is he referring ? Al

I like Gardy's lineup. The whole #3 and cleanup spot designations are a touch overrated. You're only guaranteed to bat third or fourth once in a game anyway. Better to keep the bats alternated, protect Hunter between two strong lefties and give Mauer a couple of dozen more at bats during the course of the season.

And yes Batgirl, the White Sox need to get over it. But they won't. Why? They're attitudinally challenged. Is that a word?

Oh, man, I just saw that in Boston they get to see the Thursday night game on TV.

And ESPN is televising the Yankees (surprise, surprise).

ESPN Live Chat with Scott Ridge:

Tom (Orange, CT): Whom do you feel has the best rotation in the AL?

SportsNation Scott Ridge: (1:23 PM ET ) 1. Yankees. 2. Red Sox (if Schilling is healthy). 3. Twins. 4. Angels. 5. White Sox.

P.S. Shouldn't we hope the Bitch Sox never get over it?

This just in...

Carl Pohlad voted into the Twins Hall of Fame.

Suppose his banner will read, "Owner/Contractor?"

Yankee fan,

Which situation would you rather have, a hit and run with Stewart at first and Ford hitting or with Ford at first with Stewart hitting? As Stewart gets older and loses speed he looks more and more like a prototypical number two hitter who has tough at bats and can put the ball in play when necessary. Ford’s speed makes him look more like a leadoff hitter.

I can't stand having Hunter and Jones back to back. They are too similar of hitters. I love Gardy breaking them up, even though it pushes Lew into a sub-optimum position.

Those 7 hitters though are pretty solid. I'm really looking forward to this team hitting, which is a surprise to me.

Greg,

Reasonable minds may disagree, I guess. At the risk of sounding "statsy," I think of Stewart as more of an OBP man, while I think of Ford as a contact hitter for average. In that vein, I feel like having Stewart on base a lot (and still a threat to steal) opens even more holes for Ford. I see Ford hitting balls through those holes better than Stewart would if Ford was on base. So I pick hit and run with Stewart on base and Ford hitting. I see a lot of first and third with Mauer up opportunities (though I think Mauer 2 and Ford 3 is a better lineup).

Of course, a brief check of the actual 2004 stats don't necessarily support my thoughts, but since stats are frowned upon here, I won't elaborate. :)

So would the lineup be better Stewart/Mauer/Ford/Torii or Ford/Mauer/Stewart/Torii? I dunno, maybe it comes down to their average with runners in scoring position...

YankeeFan

My lineup:

1. Stewart
2. Mauer
3. Fats LeCroy
4. Morneau
5. Lew Ford
6. Hunter
7. Michael Cuddyer
8. SS
9. Luis Rivas

This will be the line-up in August anyway...

'Suppose his banner will read, "Owner/Contractor?"'

Killer!

So, Florida, where are you guessing our friend Jacque will be in August? Traded?

I love how the Bitch Sox have let one play, that happened during a mid season game, affect the course of their franchise.

Sometimes things aren't a microcosm, no matter how much you want them to be. The Twins didn't beat the Sox because they run over catchers. They won because they didn't walk people, had a killer bullpen, some decent hitting, and a solid defense.

Watching the Sox flounder has become almost as much fun as watching the Twins rise to prominence.

The only problem I have with Morneau batting 5th is that you're reducing his appearances at the plate some. IF this kid is the next 40 HR hitter for the Twins, don't we want him batting lower in the order, like, oh ... 4th?

YankeeFan, I'd argue that, on a team with better hitters behind him in the order, and that knows how and is willing to play small ball, Ichiro is the best lead off man in baseball. But then, I have been wrong (a lot, dammit) before.

How about:

Stewart
Hunter
Mauer
Morneau
Ford
Jones
Cuddyer
SS
Rivas

That puts Stewart, who still has some speed, in front of Hunter, who's fond of taking extra bases. I don't know how much having Mauer in front of him will deter that. That also protects Mauer with Morneau and leaves Morneau in the stereotypical spot for the power hitter. Also, with Ford in front of Hunter and his moderate power, that puts a scoring threat combination a little deeper in the order. Also, let's not forget that Cuddyer showed some good skill with a bat last year. With Choo Choo on base, and Jones's free swinging, it will be nice to have someone that could maybe move him over behind Jones. As for SS and Rivas, well, I don't know what to say.

I'm not very bright when it comes to these things, but that's how I see it. I also do see Gardy's point about putting an opposing manager in a bind in late innings with the lefty right thing, too.

That should read Ford in front of Jones.

Dear White Sox: your pitching had the worst staff ERA in the AL after the All-Star break last season. Unless all your pitchers needed intensive psychiatric care after seeing Jamie Burke get knocked down one time in late July, I don't think that one play really killed off your season.

As for the lineup, I'd keep Stewart at the top just because it makes him and everyone else feel happy. It works, so why monkey with it? But I think Ford could do just as well, perhaps better, as a leadoff man: he gets on base just as well, and he's faster. And I wouldn't mind seeing what might happen with Stewart's "professional bat" in the 2-spot. If Stewart would accept the change, I'd give it a trial.

3-4-5 would be Mauer-Morneau-Hunter. Jones has to bat 6th because his obp isn't good enough to bat in the 1-2 spots, and I wouldn't want him at #2 because he's a wild hacker. Not somebody I trust to move runners along, make contact and shoot for holes. His power against RHP is his greatest asset, and the 6-spot takes good advantage of that. Against LHP, I'd platoon him with Restovich--same spot.

7-8-9... Cuddyer, Tiffee, Castro/Punto. Cuddy Bear would be my 2nd baseman. But, forced to use Gardy's roster, I guess Rivas/Punto would be playing 2nd and batting 8th.

The benefit from lineup shuffling is more psychological than anything. There is really very little difference in actual production from lineups that are similar. So it would depend on where Morneau, Hunter, and Ford are most comfortable.

Personally, I kind of like Gardy's lineup because Torii is a good fastball hitter, and he should get better pitches to hit b/w Mauer and Morneau. If I were doing this on paper, I'd switch Ford and Hunter, but in real life, Hunter would probably benefit more from being in between the MM boys. IMO.

Batting Mauer second is a ridiculous waste of resources.

Gardy's lineup projection is typical of his tendency to overemphasize one trait (alternating L/R) to the detriment of other important considerations (plate discipline, style of hitter, individual weaknesses). I think Gardenhire could use a retreat at a Benedictine institution to increase his appreciation for "balance."

If you are going to have Stew, Lew and Joe in the same lineup regularly, why on earth wouldn't you want them back-to-back-to-back?

We all have enjoyed watching Stewie lead off the last year and a half. I see no reason (barring a significant performance drop) to alter that. But the 2-hole hitter is often asked to do things like hit behind the runner, sacrifice, slap a base-hit just over the infield, etc. Asking Joe to do that 30-40 times per season wastes that many plate appearances from a hitter who can be reasonably expected to be more productive on a per-plate-appearance basis.

I agree with the sentiments expressed above by those who don't like to see Hunter and JJ grouped together. However, I'd rather see these two coming up back-to-back with their high risk/reward swings with a runner or two on base than to allow each of them to destroy the momentum built up by the previous hitter.

One of the reasons for alternating L/R is to upset the "rhythm" of the pitcher or to not let him get in one to begin with. If a pitcher can successfully approach consecutive hitters with a similar strategy you encourage rhythm. (See Bitch Sox offense from 2002-2004.) Force a pitcher to "over-think" their approach and you gain an advantage, however slight.

Who wouldn't like hearing the following a few hundred times next year, "Well, the Twins have another runner on with Morneau, Hunter and Cuddyer due up. Morneau and Hunter are among league leaders in RBI this year and with all the guys on in front of them it's easy to see why."

FWIW, my opening-day lineup card would read:

Stewart - DH
Ford - LF
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Hunter - CF
Cuddyer - 3B
Jones - RF
Whomever - SS
Rivas - 2B

TR

Was there a change in batters' attitude at the plate within a week or so of Mr. Stewart joining the Twins, or was that just the spin? Don't know if the stats actually support that, as I prefer sass. But it seems to be important, psychologically, to have Stewart be the leadoff hitter. Could be a similar reason -- again, other than expected production -- that Gardy's putting Mauer at #2.

However, that view would require that Gardy be somewhat introspective ...

Aw, Pat Borders. And I rue the loss of Henry Blanco. Love those crafty old catchers. Two years ago, Tom Prince stole a base. His first since 1996 or something. He doubled over with laughter once he realized he'd been called "safe," as did the entire Twins bench (and, one hopes, the umpires).

I agree with ThatsRich -- pretty solid lineup. Have no problem switching up Ford and Mauer though if it helps the righty-lefty thing -- not sure it would diminish productivity from the lineup. Could also see Jones dropping to 9th (assuming he'd take one for the team) being a "secret weapon" much like Scott Brosius was for the 98 Yanks...

Thoughts everywhere... I love this game!

YankeeFan

I recall a sage who once said, "you could fire every player on the Bitch Sox, plus their coaching staff and management and still have a character problem." If I could only recall where I read that . . . hmmmmmm.

I don’t think putting Maur and Morneau next to each other in the order is a good idea. Every team has that one left-handed pitcher who specializes in getting out left handed pitchers late in the game. These pitchers often struggle against right-handed hitting. By putting Maur and Morneau next to each other in the lineup you make it easy for the opposing manager to bring in the left-handed specialist to pitch to your two best left-handed hitters without worrying about having to face a right handed pitcher. This seems to guarantee that opposing managers will always get the matchups they want.

How do I sign up to be a Batgirl intern?

Do I see a "The Apprentice: Race to the Dome" in the future??

After the last few seasons, I am just hoping all the players are on the active list and not hurt/sick/etc., so Gardy can actually use whatever he decides is his preferred batting order on a given day.

I agree that putting two young lefties back-to-back isn't necessarily optimal. Here's why I believe it's worth the risk in this case.

First, I don't think the Chairman will be quite as susceptible to L/R platoons as other hitters. Typically, hitters with higher BA and OBP and those that display the kind of polish Mr. Mauer does at an early age tend to dampen out such curves.

Second, if the scenario of late-inning, close-game situations is the reason for avoiding this pairing, then I submit that this exact situation is why you have a bench. If Mauer and Morneau are due up with the Twins behind by two in the late innings and the opposition brings in their hot lefty reliever, I say you bat Mauer - his demonstrated ability deserves the chance to prove whether he can succeed in such situations. If Mauer makes an out and you need a baserunner, you turn to the righthander on your bench (LeCroy, Ford, Restovich, et al depending on starters) to pick up for the kid. If Mauer gets on you have the choice to either hope Morneau drives one deep enough to move the runner, strikes out (avoiding the double play) or potentially ties the game. Alternatively, you can go to the bench for a player who will ably sacrifice the runner into scoring position.

I love Gardy, but I miss the days of watching TK think two or three moves ahead of the guy in the other dugout.

In short, you create a very desirable situation 3-4 times in a game as a tradeoff for having to resort to your bench once every couple of games.

Putting it another way, if I were the opposing manager in the situation above (up by two facing Mauer to leadoff a late inning) and the guy in the on-deck circle is Hunter instead of Morneau, I'm more likely to leave in my funky righthander, walk Mauer and throw curveballs a mile outside to Torii hoping either for the strikeout or the weak groundball double play. Then I'd bring in my nasty lefty for Morneau and force Gardy to pinch hit for him with a righty, knowing the guy on deck is a singles hitter (Ford).

Your lineup should create a sense of impending doom in the opposing team/manager/fandom. Introducing "holes" in the lineup just to alternate L/R batters just gives the other side hope of diffusing the rally.

BTW, if the other team starts a nasty LH (e.g. facing The Unit in The Bronx) you probably rest either Mauer or Morneau (or both) to alleviate the back-to-back lefties for RJ to feast on.

You realize, if the concept of L/R alternation is carried to its extreme, then Ruth and Gehrig should never have batted back-to-back.

(Yeah, yeah, different era...)

Gimme both of 'em on any team today, and I'd be plenty happy to write their names down in adjacent slots every day.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3420294?GT1=6209

some love for leeeeewwwwww! ignore the bitch sox reference though, i did.

>>>>I recall a sage who once said, "you could fire every player on the Bitch Sox, plus their coaching staff and management and still have a character problem." If I could only recall where I read that . . . hmmmmmm.

Andre:
Based on the fact that Jones was signed to a one-year deal, coupled with the fact that we have young outfielders that are basically ready to start, I would say Jones is only on the team today because TR wants to feel a little more comfortable with those young guys. If Ford plays well, and LeCroy and Resto are affective off the bench, I would almost gaurantee that Jones will be traded. Of course, I thought we'd beat the Yankees in 4, so why should you have faith in anything I say...

FL