Suck it Jeter indeed!

My apologies if this is already in the blizzard of posts, but here's some nice press for the Twins:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=schoenfield/060929

ESPN can't seem to get over the fact Jeter didn't win since the headlines only mention that the "Batting Title Isn't for Jeter".

Waa waa! Don't want to talk about it? TOO BAD! JOE MAUER IS THE BATTING CHAMPION!! FIRST CHATCHER IN THE AL TO WIN IT!

TWINS WIN!!!! TWINS WIN!!!!

The twinkle in my eye belongs to no other than Joey Mauer. I wear my jersey with pride here in Cardinal Country.

Jeter who?!?!?!?!

Ow ooooow! Batting Titles and making history is HOT.

Jeter had no chance... Yeah Joe!!!

Should I wear my Morneau jersey to school tomorrow? Oh I think I shall. I'm the lone twins fan in my school in Chicago!

Suck it, Jeter, indeed.

It was cool when the crowd went crazy in the 8th when the batting stats were shown and Mauer was in the dugout unsure what to do until Gardy emphatically motioned for him to go take his curtain call.

Everything about this day in Twins baseball just ended up...perfect.

I need to start a petition...I have a test at 12:30 on Tuesday...and tickets to the game. I need support, as I'm not sure if my professor knows what baseball is.

OK, so I'm definitely REALLY happy, but what's with the TWO noon games?!

The Chairman is indeed mighty and swift, but he isn't the first catcher to lead the majors in hitting. From an MLB article about MAuer in June (click on my name for the whole thing; these facts are about halfway or two-thirds in:

In the history of Major League Baseball, there have been only three times a catcher has won a batting title. Bubbles Hargrave was the first to accomplish the feat in 1926 with Cincinnati and Ernie Lombardi twice earned batting titles, one with Cincinnati in 1938 and another with the Boston (now Atlanta) Braves in 1942.

No catcher in the American League has ever led the league (They meant majors) in hitting.

And as for two noon games, imagine how the fans in Oakland feel about 10 a.m. starts.

It's all about the money. Ibaseball, that means TV advertisers want as many eyeballs as possible, and that means Yankees at night.

"Suck it, Jeter?"

Well, since we're not playing the Yankees, and the NL Division Series (one of them, at least) will start on the West Coast (probably in San Diego, based on current scores), that game has to start at 4pm eastern time or later (1pm pacific time or later). Since the Yankees always get the prime-time 8pm eastern start (I think the Second Continental Congress decreed such), that leaves the Twins with a 1pm eastern/noon local start. Or 10am for my parents in the Bay Area, who are right now frantically trying to obtain tickets to games 3 and 4...

At least I'm off work Tuesday. I normally am Wednesday too, but I'm in training that day. I'll have to tell the trainer if I feel a bit Boofy.

Yes, I believe you read it correctly.

And, might I add, "Bite me, Jeter!"

Dear Bat-Family,
I need your help. My name is Sam and I left Minnesota this year past year and recently started graduate school (studying history) at the University of California, Berkeley. For as much fun as studying history is - I am so excited to see the Twins return to the playoffs that I could burst. So excited, in fact, that I will risk almost certain death to BART it over to Oakland to watch a potential match up between the Minnesota Twins and the Oakland Athletics this Saturday.
Please Bat-Family - pray that I don't get stabbed this weekend wearing my Twins gear on campus in the heart of A's country. Pray that I don't get a beat down in that empty circle of rust that they call a stadium. This little piece of California is Twins Territory.

Oh yeah and suck it Jeter.

Thanks in advance Bat-Family,

-S.J.

i'm so happy. i don't know what to say.. eee.

What has Jeter ever done to you to merit such?

The Commish,

Neither of those two NL catchers led the entire MLB in batting, as AL hitters had better averages in both years.

So yes, Mauer did indeed make history today.

noplot: Tickets were available for the Sat. game but not the Fri. game.

If your parents get Sat. tickets let them know there will be at least one person there willing to hold their hand through the entire experience of nerve-racking excitment.

I've actually never been to the stadium over "there" - but am not looking forward to that part of it all . . . ewww.

Oh man. The Mets have a big rally in Manhattan Tuesday at 1pm ET. I can't miss the Twins game, though. The Mets will have to do without me. :-(

Commishm those catches you mentioned only led the National League in hitting. Mauer is indeed the first catcher in MLB history to lead the majors in hitting.

Andre, you took the words right out of my mouth... BITE ME, JETER!!! (that's allowed, right, BG??) heh

S.J.--my parents (in their sixties) have been a few times (moved out there last year) and done just fine. Figure they would have told me if anything weird happened. (On the other hand, they probably drove.)

Saturday would be great except we don't know when that game starts as of now, and they have some sort of church reception to go to at 7pm Saturday. The game could start at 1pm pacific, but it could also be 7pm, depending on whether the NL wild card (Dodgers) gets that slot and whether there's a sweep in the NY-Detroit series. (Again, assume the Yanks always get the prime-time 8pm eastern/5pm pacific start, or thereabouts.)

1942
NL- Lombardi: .330
AL- Williams: .356 (Led MLB)

1938
NL- Lombardi: .342
AL- Foxx: .349 (Led MLB)

1926
NL- Hargrave: .353
AL- Manush: .378 (Led MLB)

__________________________________

2006
NL- Sanchez: .343
AL- Mauer: .347 (Led MLB)

I could offer a particularly vile epithet towards Jeter (taken from a particularly vile t-shirt seen at Fenway).

But I didn't want to explain it to my 9-year-old then ... therefore I don't think BG would want us explaining it here.

Instead: Congrats, Mr. Chairman.

I've heard that Jeter shot a man in Reno ust to watch him die.

/Johnny Cash

Nice, telling contrast. Here's Alex Belth at Bronx Banter:
-------
Congrats to Mauer, who becomes the first catcher to ever lead the American League in batting. A truly remarkable season for Mauer, who is one of three MVP candidates on his team (Santana and, the favorite, Justin Morneau, are the other two).
------

And in Twins country, it's "Suck it" and "Bite me" to the runner up. Verrrrry classy.

Hmm. OK, I must have misheard the ESPN report. Everyone has been pretty distinct in talking about the first A.L catcher to lead the majors, not the league, but I can't answer your stats. (Or sass.)

Dear Mr. Away,

Oh, it's a joke. No one really wants Mr. Jeter to suck it, or bite them. Mr. Jeter is a terrific player and a testament to the game. It is merely what he represents, you see--the Yankees machine, the east coast media love. Even ESPN.com says, "Jeter loses batting title," as opposed to, you see, Mauer actually winning it--which really is a better story, after all, given the historical nature of the beast. As for Mr. Belth being more classy than Batgirl, that has never been in doubt.

Sincerely,
Batgirl

Plus, in one of his title years, Lombardi did not qualify{ab wise} for the title under today's rules. And, beside that, he was ugly and had a big nose.

Who is this "Jeter" of whom you all speak? What team does he play for?

I echo BG's post. It isn't that we don't like Mr. Jeter, it's actually more 'suck it' to the NY biased press (including ESPN). Mr. Jeter is a wonderful player, and from what I have heard a nice person too. But he still isn't MVP, just because he works in NYC.

Good.
Because I like reading Batgirl.
Probably I should refrain from reading the comments, which are too insiderish for an outside pitcher like myself.

The Bronx Banterers appear to be happy to host the Tigers in the first round, by the way.

I would like to second that emotion, that I in no way, shape or form would actually like Mr. Jeter to either suck or bite anything within spitting distance of me.

"Oh, it's a joke. No one really wants Mr. Jeter to suck it, or bite them."

Actually, to be honest, I'd be perfectly OK with a nibble from Mr. Jeter.

But Mauer, he can have the whole freakin' bite. Yeah for Chairman Mauer!!!

Now, go kick some Oakland hiney! ;-)

Midday starts? You mean games when I can watch the Twins? Yay!!!!

(posting from England)

QUERY----I'm a diehard TWINS fan, recently relocated from Minnesota to Seattle (I second BATGIRL'S plea from days back, "Anybody wanna buy a house?") and I am wondering about protocol---I have HOMER HANKIES from the last two times the TWINS were in the playoffs, but they didn't go the whole way those years. Do I use them while rooting for the Team on Tuesday? Is there a way for an outta stater to get a current, i.e. "Lucky" Home Hankie? Please advise. Luckily yours, Rally Monkey

They sell hankies at the Dome for a buck

wait...I read that wrong...crap. Um...E-bay?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=2006+homer+hanky

Hankies on E-Bay

I find the whole "media bias" issue to be interesting to turn over in my head. Here on the West Coast, I don't really get much of anything regarding the Yankees besides what I read on the 'net, until playoff time.

But I don't see it as "the media loves the Yankees" as much as "the media loves things that polarize people." "Jeter loses batting title" is a more sensational headline than "Mauer wins batting title" because who hates Joe Mauer? Jeter is polarizing: there are a lot of folks that love him, and a lot that hate him.

The same is true of the Yankees. I don't remember the Yanks getting headline treatment in the early '90's when they were losing, based only on their being in NY.

I agree that there is an emphasis on the Yankees right now (which I don't see on the Jets, Giants or Knicks) because they win, and because they excite strong emotions even from folks that aren't their fans. If that's the kind of attention you crave, I feel you should be careful what you wish for.

I can't speak for any other fan's experience, but the essence of Yankee fandom seems far more serious to me than anyone else's. The same might be said of the Red Sox (perhaps the Mets as well, I'm not sure). I wish the Yankees had someone like Bat-Girl, but the whole experience works against it. There's an innocence that's long long gone.

I really wanted to post longer on this, and more subtly, but we're off to temple for Kol Nidre. I'll just say that it's not fun being the villain, and supposedly I am by association. So, it seems, is Derek Jeter.

Ikalliance, VERY interesting, since I live on the west coast as well, and have been inundated by the pro Jeter stuff. But good luck to both teams.

*raises hand* I don't like Derek Jeter...

Thanks Pat, I'll try to scrounge up a "new and oh-so-improved" Homer Hankie, 2006 Edition!

Ha! Boss' "double or nothing" plan foiled by Chairman!

Speaking of the pro-Yankee bias...I was just watching BBTN, they were arguing Jeter vs. Morneau for MVP, and Phillips says, "Morneau is not a clutch hitter." I hate when guys who get paid to know stuff don't know stuff. Who sits atop the majors in two-out RBI? Isn't that clutch? He also said that Morneau doesn't sound like an MVP because "last year Hunter and Jones had to find him in the trainer's room and get him to play when he had a headache." Does that have any bearing on this year? What a ridiculous comment. I can't wait to watch BBTN after the Twins beat the Yankees to go to the series.

Actually, that was a quote from Jeter, "Thanks, but no thanks. That batting title is not for me. Some other time, maybe."
Headlines in NY will read, "Some Other Guy Wins Title"

How could I foget - Congrats to the Chairman -

Much Love
Wonder Woman

If Jeter wins the MVP, I'll go crazy. If they want to give the award to a light-hitting position player, there's a candidate better than Jeter in almost every way: Mauer.

He obviously finished with a higher batting average than Jeter, so there goes that. What else have we heard about Jeter? His clutch hitting? Let's look at that:

OPS, 'close and late'
Jeter: .878
Mauer: .894

OPS, runners in scoring position
Jeter: 1.081
Mauer: 1.056

OPS, RISP and 2 outs
Jeter: 1.090
Mauer: 1.200

Seems like Mauer has the edge. What's left? Jeter's intangibles? Mauer has Morneau living in his house. He's let various teammates crash on his couch all throughout the year. Sounds pretty intangibly.

What's Mauer got over Jeter? Just little facts like the 34 point difference in OPS and that he's a much, much better defensive player at arguably a more important defensive position.

Seriously, if we're suddenly opening up this award to light-hitting position players, Mauer should win the thing long before Jeter does.

And don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily think Mauer should win the award. But he should definitely win it before Jeter does.

Congratulations,
"Crouching Mauer hitting dragon" indeed!

.347... hmmm. 34 + 7. Kirby was the last Twin to win the AL batting title... now it's Mauer. .347 How appropriate.

haha shelley. Yep this team is magical indeed. lucky # 34, as in the twins will take 3 out of three games from oakland and then 4 out of four games from tigers/yankees.
Congrats Mauer! Congrats Twins! I love you royals! I hope the Tigers regain their winning form only for the next week to win the series against NY. and...
*also raises hand*
I don't like jeter either, so, SUCK IT JETER!

STEVE HOLT!

I find this to be an unusual year for the MVP. If Jeter, Morneau, Mauer, Santana, Thomas, Ortiz or Dye wins it, I don't think it's out of whack. Perhaps Dye has had the misfortune of the White Sox team putting it out of his reach. But he had a monster season. I just think they're all pretty close to equally qualified...flip-a-coin territory. The analyses seem to split hairs this year.

Practically speaking, I think the Twins' candidates hurt each other, potentially splitting the vote, which hasn't any effect on individual deservedness.

History, by the way, doesn't suggest that being a Yankee gives a player a built-in edge in MVP voting, as a Yankee has been "in the discussion" several years recently without winning. Before A-Rod last year, there had been one Yankee MVP in the previous 43 years (I believe Mattingly is the only one to win one since Elston Howard in 1963) despite 12 AL East titles and 9 AL pennants in that stretch.

In fact, before A-Rod the last nine MVPs all came from the AL West:

1996 Juan Gonzalez (Tex)
1997 Ken Griffey Jr. (Sea)
1998 Juan Gonzalez (Tex)
1999 Ivan Rodriguez (Tex)
2000 Jason Giambi (Oak)
2001 Ichiro Suzuki (Sea)
2002 Miguel Tejada (Oak)
2003 Alex Rodriguez (Tex)
2004 Vladimir Guerrero (LA)

I'm not saying these men shouldn't have won (plenty of debate about that without my stoking the flames) but the Yankees or Red Sox had top-tier competitors for the award in 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 and none of them won. I don't see any *recent* evidence of an East Coast bias, at least in the NL MVP.

Completely unrelated trend meaning absolutely nothing except that it's a factor against Jeter (and Dye, and Thomas): that entire list above (plus Rodriguez again in 2005 for ten in a row) all have non-Anglican names. Just sayin'. I guess the MVP voters like exotic names.

Addendum:

Except Griffey. So eight consecutive years with exotic names.

wow, you win, i think Dye should win it. Feel Better?

Jeter will win. because he is Jeter.

"Seriously, if we're suddenly opening up this award to light-hitting position players, Mauer should win the thing long before Jeter does."

Um, Will, you say that as if the award hasn't gone to "light-hitting position players" before. Although it usually goes to a slugger, it does sometimes go to someone like Ichiro, Barry Larkin, or Willie McGee.

This year, I think there's a good case for either Jeter or Mauer as MVP, with an edge to Jeter. Thru 9/21, according to the Hardball Times, Jeter led the AL with 31 Win Shares, Mauer 29 Win Shares (and Morneau at 27). Thru 9/30, Jeter's 79.4 VORP leads the touted AL MVP candidates (2nd in the league to Hafner). Ortiz-Sizemore-Tejada rate next, then Mauer with 65.4 VORP. (Morneau is worth 51.6 VORP.) In EqR, Jeter rates 3rd in the AL, behind Ortiz and Sizemore, with 120.2 runs. (Morneau has 109 EqR, Mauer 101.) Jeter is 2nd, behind Hafner, in Adjusted Runs Above Position with 69.8 runs. (Mauer has 58.7, Morneau has 46.7 runs.)

I get as fed up as anyone with all the Jeter man-crushing in the media all the time. Captain Dreamboat tends to be glorified to an absurd degree, yes. But this year I think he's actually undervalued by those who would focus on HR/RBI totals to rate MVP candidates. The sabermetric stats show he has more total value than the sluggers on the playoff teams. Unless Travis Hafner gets the love he deserves, and we know he won't, then I won't really have a problem with seeing Jeter win the MVP this year. And, frankly, I think the voters want to give it to him (in more ways than one). I expect he will get the award.

Oh, and congratulations to the Chairman on his batting title!

If you ask me, after considering his offensive production at the position he plays, his defense, and the work he does with this pitching staff, Joe Mauer is the most valuable position player on the Minnesota Twins.

Here's to you, Joe. Pour it on.

dear Mr Brown,

I watched BBTN also, and what really struck me about Kruk's comment about Morneau's "headache" last year is how flippant he is about it... it's called a CONCUSSION. headache, my ass.

and how does LAST YEAR affect THIS YEAR? Morneau learned something about being a teammate this year, he learned something about wanting something and going out and doing it himself. he turned it on when we needed him the most, and he hasn't stopped since.

THIS is the kind of guy I do want as my MVP. a guy who isn't going to fold under adversity, who instead embraces it and makes himself better.

Justin Morneau for MVP? damn straight!

O Chairman, your bat is indeed benevolent. Long live our reigning Batting Champion!

And oh, dear Gwynn, Kruk pissed me off last night.

Just to clarify things regarding the Baseball Tonight crew. Steve Phillips was arguing that Morneau is the MVP. It was Jeff Brantley (his MVP pick was Santana) who was MAJORLY ragging on Morneau. It was Brantley who accused him of dogging it last year, and it was Brantley who said Morneau was a poor clutch hitter. He was adamant, too--a real head-scratcher.

In related news, I read a rumor somewhere a few weeks ago that this may be Jeff's last year on BBTN. Darn shame, eh? Presumably he gets to play out the string this year because ESPN lost regular contributions from Harold Reynolds and Peter Gammons this year. ESPN's version of Tony Batista, in other words ... but without the class.

Opponents of the Twins! Pay close attention: Batgirl, our unswerving leader, is now in ninja-attack mode. Her fast-striking bats will be for you a source of shame!
(Also: Suck it, Jeter.)

Dear lkalliance:

I find there to be a whole "You're not going to kick us around anymore." attitude amongst Minnesotans that comes out in spades when we're watching a sports team strive and win. The Yankees (my second favorite team in the MLB) and Mr. Jeter represent the ease with which winning comes to some teams. Whether that's the truth or not, it is perceived and seems to be promoted by the media.

The Yankees didn't have a record that was that far off from the Twins at the end of the season (the Yankees went 97-65 and the Twins went 96-66), so the promotion of the Yanks as our Goliath makes us twitchy. If the Twins can play with the joy they've had over these past few months and keep the assbats at bay, I say to the Oakland Athletics and then to Detroit or the Yankees: "Bring it."

I agree with your assessment that the Yankees are a more dividing team, therefore the story is more sensational and fun to feed out to folks. "Jeter loses batting title" is the perfect example of that. It doesn't make it go down any easier though. When you've got a hometown boy who's loved beyond reason, we want him to be recognized by the national media, not just our Strib here in town. And really, it won't matter one iota when he's handed that batting trophy in the spring and holds it over his head how much national attention he got this fall. But at the moment we feel it.

Yours in baseball,
Beth

Baseball is not a game for haters, and frankly I don't enjoy speculating about who wins the MVP or even care all that much about the batting title.

I also think Jeter's an okay joe; he was very funny on Saturday Night Live. I give him some credit for eating Knoblauch up on the double play ball. He's made more than his share of amazing post season highlights.

But admit it, this guy's 15 minutes of fame has gone on since 1996! He’s been in the postseason 10 years in a row. He’s been in 6 World Series and has 4 rings. He’s on credit card commercials broadcast nationwide, while Land O’Lakes inexplicably keeps Joe Mauer’s pitches local.

Jeter’s the only non-mercenary who plays for the freakin’ Yankees, which means we’ll have to watch him in primetime yet again this postseason. Seeing Derek Jeter at the plate chewing his gum, sticking his finger in his ear hole, and putting his arm out to call time for the umpteenth time is like listening to Hotel California again. It’s not that I don’t like Hotel California, but there’s a lot of other good music to listen to before I pass away.

And that’s why I, like Batgirl, feel it’s not disrespectful to say suck the second place pill, GD Derek Jeter. Oh, and we’re coming from the Land O'Lakes for you!

Jeter's a great player but somehow some very vague comments got accepted by the media, particularly espn, and now get trotted out without thought.
Apparently Jeter is totally clutch in the postseason, ignoring that when the Yankees caved on a 3-0 lead against the red sox he was just as ass-batted as the rest. So he's clutch, except when he's not. but that gets ignored because it goes against what everyone thinks they already know.
Same with him being such a great leader. Except the murmours is that the Yankees have had a clubhouse split for years between those who've one a series there and those who havne't. A leader would break those barriers down, Jeter doesn't, but he's still a great leader
Jeter's a team player who only cares about winning, except one the best player in the league at his position arrives at the team it's the newcomer who has to move, not him. because he has seniority!!!!! so he's a team player, except when he's not, but he's still the great team/only cares about winning guy.
It's enough to make you spit.
And that whole I don't care about batting titles because we're trying to win the series, it's called sour grapes

Go Twins!!!!

He's clutch, except when he's not. Well, of course. Over a career like Jeter's with so many post-season games, you would expect him to fail in the clutch more often than he succeeds, which is the nature of baseball. It seems, though, that in the post-season he succeeds at least as much as he fails.

But it's been a hallmark of his that even when he's having a poor post-season, he finds a way to make a positive mark in important moments. For example 2004, which you cite, dan. In the midst of the Yankees' collapse, Jeter was in fact one player that was producing at critical moments. In Game Five in Boston, with the Yannkees trailing 2-1, he hit a two-out, three-run double off of Pedro Martinez to give New York a 4-2 lead (the Yankees would eventually lose the game). In Game Six in New York, Alex Rodriguez famously slapped the ball out of the hand of Bronson Arroyo, trying to extend a comeback rally. The runner on first was Jeter who had singled.

One of Jeter's famous moments is in the 2001 World Series when he hit a 12th-inning home run to win Game Four; he had been having a *terrible* Series to that point (and afterwards). He just found a way to get it done.

I don't think any of us are in a position to judge Jeter's leadership abilities or lack thereof, any more than we're in a position to judge Joe Mauer's or Justin Morneau's or David Ortiz's or Johan Santana's or anyone else's. We're not in the clubhouse. That Jeter's teammates and ex-teammates think so highly of him says a lot to me.

Wow. A comparsion between Derek Jeter and "Hotel California". How apt. How prescient. How astute. Both with merit on a basic level, but both lauded far more than is deserved. Both excessively embraced by the masses, thanks to the never-ending deluge of each forced upon us by the media. Both nauseatingly predictable and overplayed. Both tired and near caricature. And, to paraphrase The Dude, "I hate the f***ing Eagles, man. And the f***ing Yankees, too." In the parlance of our times...go, Twins!

Oh, and lkalliance, the problem with the "Jeter loses batting title" headline, aside from the suggestion that the public only care about the big name guys (why not at least "Mauer tops Jeter for batting title"?), is that it's WRONG. Jeter can't lose something he never possessed. On top of that, Mauer has led the league in hitting for months; it's not like Jeter's been ahead all along, and Mauer crept up on him right at the wire. I suppose the next headline will read, "Wang loses Cy Young", eh? "Yanks lose ALCS"? Oh, well. I can live with those, too.

That's just semantics, adidasman. The important distinction is that "Jeter Loses" is more polarizing and sensational than "Mauer Wins". Jeter gets attention because that attention is rewarded. He's a man who's enjoyed a lot of public success and as such he's hated. Joe Mauer, on the other hand, is a wonderful ballplayer who no one, as far as I can tell, is rooting for to lose in the way many people root for Jeter or the Yankees to lose.

"Wang loses Cy Young" would not be a headline, because Chien-Ming Wang is not "hated" in the way that Jeter is "hated." "Yankees lose ALCS" might very well be the headline insted of "Twins Win ALCS" or "Athletics Win ALCS" because that's the headline that gets people's dander up.

*raises hand*
I hate chien-ming wang.

Just bustin chops.

I love chops, I even don't mind them when they're busted. But I hate them when they're over-seasoned.

I like mine breaded, with some savory saffron rice on the side and a chilled bottle of sauvignon blanc at the ready.

Oh, and I prefer eating said meal whilst watching the Twins thump some hapless opponent.

And I hate that Wang guy, too. Just 'cuz he plays for the Yankees. (You have to admit, this team of Yankees is easier to loathe than that happy, feel-good "we're just a team without superstars" group that won all those Series in the Nineties. All they had was that idiot Paul O'Neill to really get under your skin and make you scream vile, noxious things at the TV...)

We keep the TV off during dinner usually, unless it's post-season. The TV is in full view of the kitchen table, but we normally sit with out backs to it. But during the post-season, or during March Madness, or any time the Yankees are on, we shift to the other side of the table and turn on the TV.

So now, whenever there's some reason (sports or non-sports related) to watch TV during dinner, my wife calls it "Playoff Positions".

I've given up on "loatheing" with sports. I did, when I was younger, just like everyone else. And then I began working in sports, and meeting the athletes, and I experienced that it's just like everywhere else: there's good guys and there's bad guys, and the uniform they each wear (or their highly-stylized and highly-cultivated reputations in the media) has little to do with it.

That the Yankees seem to be hated (or resented, probably more accurately) suggests that it's easy for them. But each individual player didn't become an All-Star by being a Yankee. Gary Sheffield had to work very hard, I'm sure, to become a great player -- no less hard than Johan Santana has had to work, no more hard than Jose Reyes has had to work, etc. They're individuals, that's how I prefer to treat them.

let's stop talking about the Yankees and get back to JOE MAUER AND HIS BATTING TITLE!!!

yahoo Twins!

I think people are missing BatGirl's key insight about Mauer v. Jeter. It is not that the media loves the Yankees. Or that we hate the Yankees, although many do. They make an easy villain with their huge payroll, huge media base and perennial success. No one has stuck with the yankees through thick and thin, something every other team prizes. It all looks thick from here. What you call difficulties look to us like comeuppances. America prefers spunky underdogs. But Torre and Jeter are classy, professional guys and hard not to admire. In '92 I watched Aggassi beat Ivanisovich for the Wimbledon Championship on BBC in England. It was all about Ivanisovich. They were respectful of Aggassi but you would have thgought he was a backboard for Ivo to hit off. Not unlike watching the Twins in a strange town on their local TV. It is not that they are rude to the Twins (well, except the Bitch Sox announcers), just that the local team is the story and the away team is the Washington Generals. That is how small market fans see the Eastern Media. When we see our teams on National TV it is like ESPN or the other networks are local announcers for the big market team. They can't pronounce the names of our players. We resent it that Mauer has accomplished this extraordinary batting title and Jeter is the story. Dammit the kid is 23 and a catcher but the "home team" is the story. This fits with our other resentments here in flyoverland that New Yorkers think they are the center of the universe. (Thoughtful New Yorkers i.e. Steinberg seem to agree) The implication that yankee fans are more sophisticated is unavoidable in the posts of their apologists above. No one else thinks so. George Will asks "Have you ever known anyone with real character who was a Yankee fan?" They seem to the rest of the country as pitiful bandwagon jumpers. Just as a poll in the country as a whole would rank New Yorkers as the most provincial. The rest of us have some appreciation of our limitations and an interest in learning from others that seems totally foreign to New York. The Strib would have no difficulty coming up with sophisticated arguments for giving most awards to Twins and a few to other central division players. We will never trust he opinions of the Eastern Sports Promotional Network and the other east coast based media as long as they keep acting like local announcers for East Coast teams.
Don't bite me ESPN, bite Steinbrenner, or your own announcers or better still send them for a swim in our pond and we'll handle the biting

No one has stuck with the Yankees through thick and thin? Well, that depends on your perspective.

I became a Yankees fan as a young child in New York in the late 1970's. Perhaps because at the time they were exciting and successful. They hadn't been immediately prior to that. My first taste of the Yanks was Reggie and Thurman and Sweet Lou and Louisiana Lightning and Figgy and Dirt and Chambliss and Nettles and Randolph and Bucky and Mickey.

Then came the 1980's. Not a particularly bad decade for the Yanks, but an increasingly empty one. For 15 years there were no titles of any kind. For me, that was from age 13 to age 28: prime sports-loving years. Over half my life, and well over half my sports fan life at the time.

Sometimes it was a matter of good teams losing out in the end -- quite unlike what we experience today as Yankees fans. New York was in the hunt in 1983, 1985, 1986 and 1987 and came away empty handed each time. There was no "Yankees aura" during that period.

We had some pretty bad teams during that stretch, too. I remember 1989, 1990, 1991: the nadir. In 1990 I was working with the cable station that broadcast the Oakland Athletics: the Yankees were swept in the season series, 14-0. There were horrible teams.

From about mid-1988 through 1993 we had no chance. Is that as long as some teams have had no chance? No, it's not. But the Twins' recent stretch between 1991 (a world title) and 2002 wasn't much longer.

I watched every game of the 1991 World Series in fascination. As I did the 1987 World Series before it. And all the others in between that didn't involve the Yanks. I knew who Kirby Puckett was and Kent Hrbek and Tom Brunansky and Tom Herr and Frank Viola and Jeff Reardon and Rick Aguilera. And Mike Pagliarulo and Al Newman and Bert Blyleven and Scott Erickson and Brian Harper and Tom Kelly. And all my friends did, too, we were baseball fans.

I resent being told that because I'm a Yankees fan that automatically means I'm a bandwagon fan. I've been fortunate over the past decade to have seen my team put together a team that has stayed very good for a very long time. But I've seen other years too.

Yup, you expect to win the World Series every year and consider it tough times when you don't. But you think "the essence of Yankee fandom seems far more serious to me than anyone else's"

Yes, it is. Yankee fandom isn't as essentially "fun" as it is elsewhere. That's evident from the way we're viewed from the outside. A long long time ago it was said that "rooting for the Yankees is like rooting for U.S. Steel." I'm often asked to defend the fact that I'm a Yankees fan, as if I can't be the way a Twins fan is a Twins fan, say, or a White Sox fan is a White Sox fan.

It's happening on this very thread: my qualifications as a fan are questioned because I happen to root for the Yankees. My "suffering quotient" isn't as high so I can't be a real fan. It leeches a lot of the fun out of it...perhaps becuase it seems a portion of the fun that fans of other teams enjoy is....making fun of the Yankees.

I've experienced it the other way, too. I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for 20 years, rooted for my home teams there, too, watched how the Giants were celebrated for coming close. San Francisco has yet to experience its first baseball title EVER. And they love the Giants to death, usually. It's allowed to be more *fun*.

Every group of fans has to find its line, this point where there's a balance between what is "success" and what is "failure." The Yankees raise those stakes for its fans. You can't exist as a fan without a balance like that. "Success" and "failure" are moving targets. If you think that Yankees fans are used to always winning, then I believe you've misinterpreted. You can't exist as a fan always winning, or always losing. So the standards of winning and losing change.

So by now winning the AL East doesn't quiver the needle for the fans, the way winning the AL Central does for a Twins fan, say. Why should that be? You've won four in five years, aren't you used to it by now? Of course not, and more power to you! My best friend is a Twins fan, and I'm extremely happy for her, and through her I'm extremely happy about the Twins and their wonderful season, in the way a fan is and not just in the way a *baseball* fan is.

We expect to win the World Series every year? You bet we do. Because under the current setup, that's the only way we have a balance between success and failure. But that means that all the other stuff that comes before is business, not fun, in a way. So, yes, I think the essence of Yankee fandom is more serious."

I'm not complaining that you are a yankee fan. Only pointing out that to the rest of the country it looks like the national media think the big market teams, especially the yankees are the story and the rest of us only the Washington Generals. We doubt Jeter would be getting all this attention if he played for a midwestern team. I gather your defense is that you are "more serious". This fits our view of what yankee fans think of themselves.

Not my point. Just mentioned in passing that the rest of the country doesn't share your high opinion of yourselves.

I don't mean "more serious" in that we care more about the Yanks than you do about the Twins. I mean "more serious" in that more of the joy has been leeched out over the years.

I don't get the same impression of the national media. I think they cover what's relevant. I get Twins news (and A's news and Tigers news and Cardinals news etc.) on my AP feed as much as I get Yankees news. I get the same highlights on ESPN.

Johan Santana gets plenty of attention: he plays on a midwestern team. Albert Pujols gets a ton of attention: he plays on a midwestern team. Barry Bonds gets a HUGE amount of attention: he's not on the East Coast, either. Roger Clemens gets a lot of attention: he's on a midwestern team. Francisco Liriano's injury situation was top-of-the-news; he's on a midwestern team.