Seems like an unfair deal to me -- the Reds get 2 pitchers with big league experience while the Twins get a minor leaguer.

YankeeFan

Heh, Yankee Fan.

I missed the part about the second pitcher. Who else did the Twins give up?

Regarding Lohsie - good riddance to bad baggage. He probably feels the same way about the Twins. This is a good parting of the ways - Kyle may succeed with a change of scenery. Or, he may continue to suck.

In the meantime, it looks like we got a good prospect to promote to AA or AAA and see what he can do there.

I believe they gave up Lyle, too.

Buh-Bye Lohsie. See ya. No tears will be shed here.

It says this was the 2nd trade between the Twins and Cincinnati. What was the first?

The Castro deal.

You know, I genuinely wish Kyle luck. He never quite jived with our organization, and hopefully he'll have more luck elsewhere.

I find it amusing that we traded for... a pitching prospect. But this Ward kid sounds pretty exciting.

Oh, and adios, Kyle/Lyle. I won't miss the agony of wondering which one of you was going to show up on a given day, nor will I miss that pouty face you always had on when one of your mean, horrible, spiteful teammates intentionally booted a grounder or lost a fly ball in the roof just to wreck your life. Say hi to Eddie for us.

For the Reds' sake, I hope Lyle isn't part of the deal and retires to go fishing with Bad Radke.

I still think Kyle may be a good pitcher, but not with us. Good luck and good riddance.

I agree with Carrie--I wish Kyle good luck--maybe a change of scenery will help rejuvenate his career. We got more for him than I expected--a kid with Liriano numbers (7-0;2.3ERA and 95Ks)--I know Class A but still those are GREAT numbers. We shed $4million that can be used to resign Mauer or Morneau and open up a spot for Torii. Good news all around.

DAM

Zach Ward or the young Tom Berenger?

http://www.billingsgazette.com/blog/mustangs/?page_id=26

That loud whoooshing sound you heard were collective sighs of relief from Josh Rabe and Willie Eyre, who now may get to live the major league lifestyle a bit longer. One or the other almost certainly would have been optioned to make room for Hunter and Eyre is still looking at a return to Rochester when Guerrier is back.

In the mean time, someone ask TR when Alfonso is expected to show up, will ya?

And everyone hold your breath for a few more hours... sounding like Torii could still end up in a Boston uniform.

The only bit of caution: The Midwest League ain't exactly the bright lights of Broadway (or even Washington Avenue). Let's ship the kid to Fort Myers and see what happens.

As for Kyle - well, at least we got more than the three bags of fresh-roasted peanuts some of us were predicting a few weeks ago. All credit to Kyle, Lyle or Evyle (they weren't evil twins - they were evil *triplets*) for shuttin' up and pitching since he came back from the Roch.

(Now just watch: In his introductory locker room interview with the Cincy Enquirer, he'll go off like a time bomb about Gardy not understanding him, Rick Anderson being possessed, horrific defense, the state of the Arab-Israeli conflict, and why gas prices are all a conspiracy, man. A *total* conspiracy.)

I hope you're wrong, tqd, but with Kyle, you never know. I agree he's shown a lot more restraint and almost what you'd call 'class' since being recalled. He's done his job despite being clearly frustrated. Maybe that's a sign of maturity.

As for his chances of success with the Reds, keep in mind that he's essentially been sent down to what amounts to "Class AAAA" this year. The NL has clearly not been as tough as the AL so it wouldn't surprise me all that much to see him have some success there.

I also agree that Ward needs to be sent up at least to Ft Myers, if not New Britain. He's obviously proved he can get low-A hitters out. That said, the Snappers come to Cedar Rapids later in August and I wouldn't mind getting a look at him in person.

My prediction is, if this Ward kid puts up similar numbers in a few starts in our farm system, we'll see Garza before September.

It's bittersweet. I am glad that Kyle has moved along, but I remember the good times (and the bad times, too).

Kyle will enjoy hanging out with Eric Milton, Juan Castro, and Eddie Guadardo. Eventually, Joe Mays might get called back up and Grant Balfour might actually recover enough to pitch (but I wouldn't count on it).

My dream scenario:

This trade was designed to ditch Loshe & bring Soriano. Yes, I'm reversing an earlier position. But the market has changed. Almost everyone is out of the Soriano race now other than the Twins. Maybe we can include this pitcher, or let another guy go because we got him.

Anyone, ESPN is saying the same thing. "Soriano may fall into Twins lap," is the most recent update on his situation. If the Twins can get Soriano without giving up Garza, or even if they pick up a decent 4th starter in another deal, TR should get that bat.

As a reds fan, i can only hope that Lohse pitches like he can and not how he has this year, otherwise this is another coup by Ryan. Ward is the real deal from everything i've heard. I can imagine Kyle having success in a new league with a solid spot in the rotation, so hopefully it works for both teams.

And the chance of kickin back with Juan Castro or no, i'm sure he misses you already.

I'm nervous about the Soriano thing... but if we can get him without losing Garza, I think we should go for it.

On the other hand, he's terrible at working the count. Almost no plate discipline. If we had Soriano in our lineup, and then Torii comes back... all that newfound plate discipline we've learned might vanish overnight.

Or... oh, I don't know! Man, I'm glad I'm not Terry Ryan.

Well, Boston also is trying to unload Coco Crisp, and someone said they wanted Torii. Also, Coco's getting paid only $2.75 million this year. It's going to be an interesting day. Apparently the Tigers are out of the Soriano running, which means the Twins, Red Sox, and Angels are the main players.

I think the view from Redsland is that this deal is a bit upsetting. Ward was lights out and we were looking forward to seeing him in Cincy someday, and Lohse was looking a lot like Joe Mays earlier this year (whom thank god we got rid of.) You guys got a good deal.

I hope Kyle does well for the Reds. I would love to see the Reds win the Wildcard and back in the post season.

I also think he needs to do well or Reds fans are going to start to wonder about Wayne just picking up all the Twins cast offs. If doesn't pan out it could be a bad start to the new Reds front office.

Let's see they still need to go get
Dougie baseball
Koskie from the Brewers
Hawkins from Baltimore
Did Matt Lawton retire?
Rivas is avaiable in the minors right?

Good luck Kyle.

Knowing TR's track record, Ward will be a future starter and we'll look back and wonder what the heck the Reds were thinking.

This is not bittersweet IN THE LEAST. This is pure, unalloyed, unadulterated goodness.

I will now spend the rest of my day with a beatific smile on my face. The last holdover of the Four Horsemen of Suck is off the rosted of my beloved Minnesota Twins. Guzman, Rivas, Romero, all gone, all unmourned, and all pretty much proving that we were pretty smart not to hold onto them.

I have been DREAMING of this day for YEARS. None of this "best of luck, it just didn't work out here" nonsense from me. I am ECSTATIC that he's gone. Nice stuff, but I dare you to find me a more childish headcase in our organization.

Ding Dong, Lohse is a Red, Lohse is a Red, Lohse is a Red! Ding Dong, Lohse is a Cincy Red!

Oh, and on the Soriano front, I have complete trust that Terry Ryan will not give away the farm in acquiring a rent-a-player who we have no hope of re-signing (and almost pouted his way off the Nationals roster by refusing to play left field). The price is still WAY too steep if it includes Garza. I've heard rumors that they're asking for a reliever and a major league outfielder to replace him in the lineup, reportedly Rincon and Cuddyer, respectively. Could you really stomach such a deal? Losing the Boo-est of Berries and DJ Cuddles for two months of Soriano? Um, sorry, but no thanks.

Stay strong, Terry Ryan! Almost all deadline deals are bad ones for the buyers! If Soriano comes cheap, then by all means, make it happen, but I love this team too much to sacrifice key guys and top prospects for 2 months of a pouty hitter.

Hey, Funoka - what's your beef with Radke? He has one bad outing after a batch of really good ones, and you're on the "Bash Brad" bandwagon? Man, being loyal to an organization and pitching hurt for years doesn't get you much with some people, eh? He was the one bright spot on this team for a long time, and he's still someone that I want on the mound when the game really matters - though his body might betray him. He deserves a lot better than some Batlings want to give him these days, that's for certain. (He certainly deserves a lot better than to be lumped in with Lohse...)

Bye Lyle. I'm with Chris - I won't miss ya'.

As far as Soriano, I'm of the camp of hold on to Garza...and I'll be pleased if the Twins' only involvement is to keep Soriano out of the division (through 3-team trade or whatever).

Rincon: No. Cuddyer: Maybe. That's a big maybe, but he K's a lot vs. good righties. Of course, so does Soriano.
I suppose I could be swayed on Rincon, too, if I know the Twins would be facing the Yankees in October. They OWN him.

Who knows what happens. With nobody wanting Soriano anymore...it could very well be that his value will drop. As they said, if "drops into our lap" I wouldn't mind it.

And as far as Torii to Boston is concerned, they'd better pay through the NOSE to get him. I'm talking Major League players. No prospects in that deal.

No... absolutely not. Losing Rincon and Cuddyer for Soriano would be horrific and I'm sure TR would not make such a deal.

Torhu--

But which Major League players? I mean, Papelbon will obviously be untouchable, and as much as we like to dream about it, Big Papi ain't comin' our way. And frankly, the thought of Coco Crisp just doesn't get my shorts in a twist.

We seem to do an awfully good job of milking the farms of other teams, so I'd be willing to see a prospect deal go down here.

If only they still had Andy Marte...

Soriano may not be a rent-a-player if we can use the money we're paying Radke to retain him when Radke retires next season. I doubt we'll be able to keep Stewart, too, which clears more salary to sign Soriano. Remember, no one thought we could re-sign Stewart when we got him in July...

Hey Adidiasman,

I like Brad Radke -- it's the Bad Radke of April and May who kept talking about retirement that I don't like.

altaullr-

We need that money for long-term extensions for Mauer, Morneau, and Liriano, who are all within a stone's throw of the major league minimum. That isn't going to be cheap.

Chris -

Where is there a good place to get current contract status of players, including years of arbitration left, years left on a contract, etc?

"MLB TRADE UPDATE from Jayson Stark: (2:12 PM ET ) The A's have been told they "don't have the bullets" to land Soriano. Marlins-Tigers-Washington 3-way looks like it's on life support. Another team was told by Bowden he has two deals he can do right now on Soriano _ one with an NL team (Astros?), one with an AL team (Twins?)."

Just thought you guys might want to know.

I have no idea, and I'd love a site like that. I tend to get the salary from espn.com: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=min

To get other terms, I resort to googling. Hopefully someone here is of more help!

... AND South Dakota voters appear to be opposed to the abortion ban!

Things are really turning around in the Upper Midwest!

By the way... I'm really hoping Terry Ryan doesn't do something rash for Soriano.

What do you think of the Tigers getting Sean Casey? He's got less power than Shelton, but maybe a better glove?

I wonder if Chris Shelton's error yesterday did him in?

Been watching Soriano all year here in DC -- he is streaky with a capital "S." He's a free swinger, but he makes things happen. I don't like the idea of losing Rincon or DJ Cuddles or Garza, but if the price is right -- it would be a scary bat in the lineup.

cal asked, "Rivas is avaiable in the minors right?"

I might be the only person in Twins Territory who knows this, but Luis Rivas is playing second base for the Durham Bulls, currently the AAA affiliate of the Devil Rays.

(Interestingly enough, the Bulls beat the Rochester Red Wings last night 3-2, and are playing them again tonight and tomorrow. The Red Wings won the first game of the series last Saturday night.)

As for the trade of Lohse, count me as one person who isn't feeling bittersweet, but just plain bitter. (I'm sure Kyle himself would approve.)

--
DMW

Dear BG,

I have a HUGE favor to ask of you.

Back in October of 2004, I saved a pro-Twins article found on Page2 in my favorites. After the sweep of the Sox, I needed to read it again. However, I can no longer access it w/o signing up to be an 'Insider'.

Is there any way you can provide the article written by a local novelist titled, Truth, justice and the Twins? Please???

Thanks!!

ESPN radio is pushing that the Red Sox are up in the Braves grill trying to get Andruw Jones for Crisp and one of the AAAA pitchers they carry. The Braves are supposedly holding out for Jon Lester.

I can handle Soriano if the price is relatively minimal, but I hope he likes to DH. Bowden may have overextorted the other buyers at this point.

altaullr asked, "Where is there a good place to get current contract status of players, including years of arbitration left, years left on a contract, etc?"

It might be out of place to point this out on a 'less stats, more sass' website, but the resource you're looking for is Cot's Baseball Contracts. This is the page for the Twins (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/minnesota-twins_17.html) - from there you can navigate to any other team you want to know about.

--
DMW

Jayson Stark is saying most of the Soriano buzz centers around the Twins. And he believes Garza is untouchable. I'm amazed I'm saying this, but I'm starting to think this is a 50-50 shot.

Dear Kyle,

Alas, I shall actually miss you, you gorgeous idiot...I shall miss you despite your crapular attitude, shitastic pitching, and 13 televisions.

May you suck less ass in Cincinnati.

Forever your love slave,
She-Ra, P.O.P.

Funoka - are you kidding? Give up Rincon and/or Cuddyer and/or Garza for a guy we'd never be able to re-sign for 2007? My goodness, I live in DC, too, and I've seen all the Soriano nonsense this year; this guy is trouble. He's not a Twins-type player, and he never will be; whether that's good or bad is immaterial. It's just the truth.

By the way, if you're judging Twins pitchers by how they were in April and May, as you are with Radke, you'd better be dumping Santana, too...he wasn't exactly dominant for most of those months, and we all know how that turned out. (Though Johan struggled yesterday, too - maybe he should go fishing with Brad and Kyle, eh?)

I'm with Chris. Teams like the Yankees would sell their farm systems for any ONE of our young studs. Let's lock them up and throw away the key before we chase anything else.

It sounds like more teams are getting involved in the Soriano bidding now, which will probably drive the price up. I was guessing some combination of Baker, Bonser, Tyner, Rabe and/or a couple of AA or lower prospects. But once the Marlins and Red Sox get involved, things can get out of control in a hurry. Bowden may turn out to be a genius for waiting until the last moment.

Soriano will never play more than just this year with Minn. He may even be back in DC next spring. Not sure I'd want him long term anyway. He has better power than Hunter, but no better command of the strike zone. He feasts on mediocre pitching (i.e. the entire National League). For a reasonable price, he'd make a nice fit for the rest of this year. But don't delude yourself in to thinking he'll be in Ft Myers come February.

Carmen:

Is that an offer? :)

More seriously, some guy just called WFAN complaining that although the Yankees spend too much money, he can't get Pohlad to open his wallet for Soriano.

"Mad Dog" Russo's response surprised me -- "If I owned a baseball team I am not taking money out of my estate to give to a young kid who thinks he knows everything. The team doesn't make enough money to afford the ballplayer I am not taking $50 million out of my own pocket..."

Interesting take. Now, if only one could get him to spend the money he DOES make from baseball on the team....

I would love to see Liriano, Santana, Mauer and Morneau (among others) be staples in a Twins uniform for a long time. Can it happen?

YankeeFan

YankeeFan-
That's the team core right there. And those 4 are why Soriano is a 2-month player to take a shot at the whole thing. The Twins pretty much have to sign those 4 guys to have in 2010 when the new park opens, and they should do it soon. If that's not the long-term plan, it should be.

I'm not totaly on the Soriano bandwagon, but if they can get him for a few prospects, why not? I'm not advocating trading anybody on current roster or Garza.

"Is that an offer?"

Buddy, you wish it was. ;-)

Nope, I'm still young and idealistic enough to believe we can lock up the latest, greatest young bunch of Twins. I think the new stadium changes a the game for us. Yeah, the cost is high, in lots of ways, and I honestly understand everyone who lives here that didn't want public funds going to a new stadium. But a new ballpark will be a great draw, and all the revenue that comes in will not have to be split with the Vikings. In true Twins fashion, this team is homegrown, loveable, and exciting. With the team's future in MN secure, I think Old Man Pohlad might spring for long-term contracts for the new kids. It can be done.

After some soul-searching, I think I could deal with the Rincon/Cuddyer trade for Soriano.

We've got Neshek, who I think could truly fill in the set-up man role, and the rest of our bullpen is still solid. It would give us a spot to bring up Garza and let him test the waters in the seventh inning.

And Soriano is like Cuddyer, iffy plate discipline, kinda streaky... but Soriano's streaks pay off better than Cuddy's.

Does it make things tricky for our outfield next year? Potentially. But still...

Whoa, Carrie. Neshek is too susceptible to left-handed batters to be considered for a setup role. I would absolutely not do Cuddyer/Rincon for Soriano, straight-up.

Rincon has been one of the best set-up men in baseball for the past two years. Its too early to say that Neshek can replace Rincon easily.

Carrie, you're ready to put all that on Neshak after what - a few innings? You're braver than I. And Soriano would be great if he were like Cuddyer, but he's not; Cuddyer is a team guy, a hard worker and and homegrown talent who will do what he can to help the club. Soriano is a petualnt, selfish hitter and a mediocre (at best) fielder who, even if he were to stay in 2007, would never mesh with the team's philosophy. Sorry - it ain't gonna work.

Carrie, Carrie, Carrie... we've been waiting for a couple of years for Cuddyer to show the potential to be the kind of player he projected to be and now you're going to throw him overboard, along with Rincon, for a rental?

I don't think he's a legit clean up hitter and once he's not hitting between M1 and M2, he may not get quite the same pitches to hit, but I do think he'll be a solid performer for several years to come.

Rincon is a tougher call to make. I think I read that he's either a free agent or arbitration eligible after this year (too lazy to look it up). If so, you're looking at possibly losing him without getting any return. But as big a fan as I am of Neshek's, I'm not ready to turn the 8th inning over to him quite yet. We've gotten pretty spoiled with the automatic win that comes from taking a lead in to the 8th. I wouldn't be too anxious to risk that down the stretch.

DMW - I knew Rivas ended up with the D-Rays, but after that I sorta lost track. Figured he had either given up or got dumped.

*sigh* You're right, I know you're right. I get all twitchy in the last couple of hours before the trade deadline. It's a good thing I'm not GM.

I'll argue, however, that while Cuddy isn't the player we feared he was in 2005, he's also not the player we've hoped he is in 2006. I like him just fine, but I wouldn't lose sleep over a trade.

And Rincon *is* one of the best set up men in the league, a set up man that we're not going to be able to afford forever, so I wouldn't object too strongly to seeing what we could get for him.

That being said, Soriano is too questionable. I blame the heat for making me think like this. It's the heat, I say!

Don't worry, Carrie. I'm watching ESPNNews and I am having a very hard time sitting still. The thought of Soriano batting between Mauer & Morneau is making me hot, and apparently causing me to post about every 4.5 seconds.

Besides, Cuddyer/Rincon for Soriano isn't as bad as what the Mets just did. I can't believe they gave up Xavier Nady.

I'm all jumpy too. Prowling around my house, ignoring all the work I have to do, checking espn every five minutes or so, muttering, "Don't do it, he's short term, nothing stupid now, he's not worth the price..."

Clay, I am too angry to utter anything other than expletives.

It does seem like an odd move for the Mets to make. Maybe they panicked because of what happened to Duaner Sanchez?

Laurie, apparently the Mets had some pitcher that just got hurt, so their hand was forced a bit. Still, X? Wow. That guy is going to be a good player for a few years.

Wouldn't Castillo be dealt to get Soriano?

About Nady & the Mets...
Wow... that's all I can say, is wow.

Look, I love Roberto Hernandez. Letting him go to begin with was a bonehead move that pissed me off no end. But XAVIER NADY??? WHAT THE **** ARE THEY THINKING??? Panic, schmanic. The Duaner thing is a blow to be sure. But XAVIER NADY??? WTF???

Hadn't seen the Mets deal yet. What did they do?

Shame on all of you for wasting your day sitting home monitoring trade news. I at least managed to make it to the office today. Just don't ask me how productive I've been.

Jim, I was doing fine today until this, Now the only thing I'm producing is broken crockery.

:::breathing a sigh of relief that his engagement to Laurie fell through:::

I get the sense that TR has a deal for Soriano that Washington will take, but they're trying to get something better 1st. This is going to come down to the last minute.

They're pimping the Twins on ESPNNews. This is more stressful than the Tigers series.

It was way worse when the deadline was midnight. You'd think you were safely out of woods and then BAM. It's 12:05 am and your world has just collapsed. And you'd have to work in the morning.

OK I finally found a link to the Mets deal... and I'm still scratching my head. That's about as odd a trade involving a contender as I've seen.

I agree Laurie... at least tonight we'll have an evening to digest and vent over what went right/wrong. Waking up and reading that your GM had had a brain fart at midnight was never any fun.

nerves, nerves, i'm all nerves. sheesh.

Here, this helps:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=12413

Up-to-the-second updates...

The Twins just offered Kubes instead of Garza and got turned down. Will the Nats stand pat? TR's not gonna part with Garza.

Seeing an indication as to why the Reds might have been willing to give up a decent prospect for Kyle... reports are that the Twins are picking up at least part of the $1.4mm remaining to be paid this year on his contract.

I was actually pretty happy today to see the back of Lyle... and then THIS.

Jim, if I was scratching my head right now, there'd be chunks of bloody scalp and possibly grey matter under my fingernails.

That enormous gale that blew my house down was a sigh of relief from Twins fans everywhere that nothing stupid happened in MN.

And then I post this, only to see the previous three posts.

*peeks from behind fingers* is it over yet??

*hides face again*

It's a mortal lock that Soriano got moved. It often takes a little while for the deals to get filed appropriately with the commissioner's office, so just because it's after 3pm doesn't mean the action is finished.

My poor heart is RACING. I can't take this stress. I would be more than OK with the Lohse deal being our only foray into deadline dealing.

Well, all the deals have been made by now, but there can be a lag of an hour or two before they're announced...

Not to extend the torture, but I'd just like to remind people that 4 p.m. E / 3 p.m. C is the deadline to *inform the league office* that a trade has been made.

There've been cases where it has taken a couple additional hours for the leaks / public announcements.

(If memory serves, the Don Baylor pickup at the waiver deadline in '87 kinda happened that way. Talk about your rent-a-player: He did nothing his entire time here. Except for one glorious AB...)

#%!@$*& Mets! Ridiculous. It's a lose/lose situation: If they pitch poorly, the trade is a bust. If they pitch well, they will be the Mets' obligatory trade fodder next season.

Asshats.

Chris is right. It's about 99.9% that Soriano has been traded, and from all accounts, the Twins were far & away the front-runners.
COME ON ESPN I CAN'T TAKE THIS!

somebody pull me out of this padded cell when we know it's over.

Hey, Laurie, looks like Perez and Bell got flipped for Linebrink. Does that help?

Oh Lord. Not Soriano. Please, no. Please don't let it be us. I don't want to hear what we gave up for someone we can't afford for more than the rest of this season.

Yankees stole Wilson from Pittsburg. What is this, "be kind to the Evil Empire week"?

I feel the same way, AT.

And apparently the Nats turned down our offer of Kubel? I'm not even sure I would've OFFERED him, since he was untouchable two seasons ago. We still haven't seen what he can do, what with his knees. Kubel will be very very good for us next year.

And Carmen? You are absolutely right. I feel the same way.

You know, I'm starting to think Soriano didn't move. He thought he was playing chicken with TR for Garza. TR doesn't play chicken.

I was anti-Soriano a few days ago, but the market shifted dramatically at the end. It became a situation where the Nats either get rid of him or risk losing him for nothing.
It looks like Garza was completely off the table. As long as that was the case, I'm willing to give TR the benefit of the doubt. If the Twins get him, at this point I feel very confident that it will be a deal we can live with.

Carrie, the only thing that would help would be to see Xavier Nady wearing a Mets uniform tomorrow night.

Wait... Bell? WE TRADED HEATH BELL TOO???

I need a drink. I need a friggin' brewery.

Carrie -

Do you have a link to the "Perez and Bell got flipped for Linebrink" story?

It appears so, Laurie.

If the Nats really wouldn't part with Soriano for Kubes and Baker, then they are fools.

I'm getting everything from http://www.mlbtraderumors.com

I really think Omar Minaya is OCD. He absolutely MUST make blockbuster deals. You could cobble together one hell of a lineup from the players he's traded away. And in my opinion, those trades are only worthwhile if you get a ring out of it.

I'm with you, Laurie. My next glass of juice is going to have a splash in it.

Thanks for the link, Carrie. The Nats are crazy to not take Kubes. I'm a little disturbed that we even offered him. And the Baker gets thrown in there to sweeten the pot, and they still won't do it? Greed, greed, greed!!

Word is in. Soriano is staying in Washington. (ESPNNews)

Carmen, and I haven't had a drink in 20 years...

I'm boggled.

Bowden ought to be fired. Hold on to Soriano for an additional two months of a lost season, in lieu of (almost) your choice of pitching prospects *and* Kubes? If I were a Nats fan, I'd be throttling the man.

We many not get him, but everyone should know Soriano is NOT a bad guy. Jim Bowden is the bad guy. Soriano is the one who sucked it up and moved to LF.

I've watched him all year with the NATs and he plays very hard.

Personally, I don't like watching his wild swings, but he is productive. He's also lightning fast.

Probably the best thing you can say about Soriano is Frank Robinson likes him.

*peers warily at computer screen, trembling slightly*

Are we sure? ARE WE SURE?? Can I at last heave a sigh of relief that will empty my lungs?

Laurie,

Oh dear. There is definately no joy for Mets Nation. I suggest you vent your spleen on Gary Gillette over at espn--he thinks the Xavier Nady trade was a great idea.

Carmen, it looks pretty safe, yeah. Nothing will be certain for a few hours, but frankly, it's looking pretty done.

Ugh! I hate this feeling in my stomach. Please say this is over and all our guys are safe at home tonight....I can't believe Kubes was offered!

My guess is, Kubes was offered because he's starting to look a little fragile.

I'm still just amazed. Bowden is insane. This could lose him his job.

Seeing as I have nervously gnawed my way through way too many snacks, gotten nothing done today, and have swat through everything I'm wearing (which may or may not be due to my non-air-conditioned computer room), I think it's time I did something productive while I gear up for the Rangers tonight.

Well, the Nats just announced that they aren't trading Soriano becuase none of the offers was good enough. I shudder to think what would have been good enough...but I'm relieved.

Now can we get back to the business of writing witty, urbane banter that celebrates the 2006 AL Central Division Champion Minnesota Twins, please?

Hear hear, adidasman.

Adidasman--

The translation of that Nats explanation would be, "We thought we could play chicken with Terry Ryan. We thought he would cave at the last moment and give us his top pitching prospect. We thought when he said 'Matt Garza is not on the table' he really meant 'I will give you Matt Garza in a last minute fit of panic, because although I, Terry Ryan, am never given to panicky trades, I believe that I will give it a try because I am cowed over by the terror of dealing with the illustrious Washington Nationals.' But we were wrong, and now we have nothing, and we are trying to cover our poor, talentless behinds while figuring out a way to shove our general manager in front of a truck. Pity us."

And now back to your regularly scheduled Twin-ness.

ON SORIANO:

Associated Press

WASHINGTON,– Alfonso Soriano is staying in Washington.
The Nationals decided not to trade their All-Star left fielder, who was widely thought to be the biggest prize available before Monday's 4 p.m. EDT trade deadline.
"We felt the best deal we could make is no deal for the franchise," general manager Jim Bowden said.
Soriano is batting .286 with 32 homers, 64 RBIs and 26 stolen bases in his first season with Washington after coming over in a trade with Texas last offseason. He can become a free agent after this season.

CarrieICL,

Indeed. Hilarious.

I bet when Terry Ryan is in a crowd, he keeps one hand on his wallet at all times.

It was fun while it lasted . . . and the Bitch Sox didn't get Soriano.

I think the Nats will really try to sign him, now.

Here's a toast to Rondell White's "hot" hitting, Torii's return, and Kubel's wheels.

I don't know - Jim Bowden did make one pretty impressive deal with the Reds a few weeks back, remember. He traded, what, Marion Berry and a drug addict to be named for half of the Reds' starting lineup, right? Something like that. But yeah, Carrie, you nailed it - Bowden faced off against TR and lost, counting on the Twins to be desperate. Terry Ryan is many things, but desperate ain't one of 'em. Way to go, TR.

I really can't say I'm disappointed, especially since Soriano didn't end up in Chicago, Detroit, NY or Boston either. That was my biggest concern.

Of course, I do think NY improved themselves quite a bit, especially when a couple of their guys get back in Sept. Better catch and pass them now while we can.

Sometimes the best deal is the one you don't make... and with Hunter and Guerrier coming back (maybe even Ford toward September), an already solid team should be in good shape for another run. (Oh, and bring Garza up now, dammit.)

Ah yes, the trading deadline is over, and the Twins live through it unscaved.

We lost Kyle, but I don't count that as an actual loss. One, he hasn't been a starting pitcher for about 2 and a half months and hardly ever emerged from the bullpen when he returned. He had too much attitude and we got a better pitching prospect.

I had mixed emotions on the Soriano deal. But he isn't here, so it doesn't matter what I thought. Win Twins!!

Does anyone else think TR knew what Bowden wanted and made him think he could get it just to keep Soriano out of the league? Baker-Kubel was quite a gamble. Will Soriano clear waivers? I think not. TR has made some interesting gambles (boone,T-bat), but I can't remember shooting ourselves in the foot (Ortiz=seperate discussion). In TR I trust.

Is Garza really ready? I'd love to give him a shot, but I'm nervous about his quick rise and sometimes bringing a guy up too fast jeopardizes his career.

Bob, now I think you might be giving TR too much credit. I don't think even he could orchestrate that kind of thing. I think he made his final offer and that wasnt good enough.

I do think Soriano COULD clear waivers, but it's unlikely. To claim a guy, you have to be willing to take on his remaining salary. That usually means that the players who clear are generally overpriced for their perceived value. Soriano is expensive but there didn't seem to be a shortage of teams willing to take on his salary for 2 months. If they try to deal him, it would be late in August when perhaps some of the current contenders are out of the running. Even then, I would think someone would try to block that trade by claiming him. If it's blocked, the Nats would have to pull him off and keep him or let him go for the waiver price (if they do that, Bowden REALLY looks like an idiot).

As for Garza, of every opinion I've read, the only guy who doesnt think he might be quite ready yet is Tom Kelly... and TK never met a rookie he thought was ready. I would bet he's in a Twins uniform by the time the Twins leave Detroit in the middle of next week unless he gets absolutely shelled on his next start.

I'm not saying the Twins should have sent away their prized prospects for a rent-a-player, but I find it a bit troubling when a playoff contending team makes no moves at the deadline to help themselves, and it's fans are "relieved". When is a good time to make a move, part with a prospect, if it's not in the heat of a playoff race??? Just throwing that out there.

Bob, I also wondered if TR might have been playing defense in his negotiations with the Nats. Make a really good offer, dangle the one carrot Bowden really wanted (Garza) long enough for the Yankees, BoSox, ChiSox, Tigers and other suitors to lose interest and back off, then reel in the carrot and walk away from the table. At any rate, that distraction is now behind us. We know what cards are in our hand. Now we just have to play them well enough to make the post-season. The dog days are upon us, and these Twins dogs can hunt.

Cheers to TR. Kyle/Lyle can try again with another team, good chance the A-ball pitcher is good, and we retain all the players that have a chance to do something special in the final stretch--provided we get the back end of our rotation in shape.

This is really going to be long, but I wanted to show you all how I make it through deadline day.

The Trade Deadline Drinking Game! Fun for the whole Family! (Note* I don’t really condone drinking for the whole family. I realize that alcoholism is a serious problem and I don’t mean to make light of it. I do mean to bring a little levity to the trade deadline.)

I recommend a high speed internet connection, two TV’s (one tuned to regular ESPN, one to ESPN News), a radio tuned to your local sports talk station, your local sports page, a pad of paper (to help yourself keep track of what’s going on) and a catheter. You’ll also need a little hooch. You may also want to just go ahead and call in sick for tomorrow, too.

Rules:

Take one drink every time ESPN flashes a new trade involving a player you’ve never heard of and someone else’s minor league prospect.

Take one drink every time you hear the name Billy Beane.

Take one drink per team if ESPN reports a multi team deal that is “rumored to be in the works”. Make it three drinks if Billy Beane’s name is linked to this rumor.

Take a drink every time you a new talking bobblehead on ESPN, i.e. Jayson Stark, Steve Phillips, etc.

Take a drink every time a National League pitcher with a 5+ ERA gets traded to the American League. I’m sure that will work out well.

Take two drinks every time you hear the phrase “The Boss wants” or “Steinbrenner wants”.

Take one drink per player for every trade involving multiple teams that actually goes down.

Take one shot every time your local radio guy says of your local team “there’s no way they can/can’t make that move” while berating some moronic caller.

Take four shots and bury your head in a pile of cocaine Tony Montana style every time the Yankees fleece some small market team with crappy prospects and cash. Then bang your head into something solid for about 15 minutes. Because it’s not enough that they have a payroll the size of several South American countries GDP’s, but you might as well have idiot GM’s letting them have their best players for $0.50 on the dollar too. (I’m going to end this rant here, but believe me, I could go on).

Take two shots every time your local sports radio station switches “talent” (I use that term very, very, very facetiously) and the new guy completely contradicts what the previous idiot, er host, was saying.

Take a drink every time the local beat reporter in your sports page has his pick for the day go down in flames.

Take two drinks when a team screws up a “youth movement” by selling off some veterans but manages to keep that winter’s free agent screw up signing because the GM doesn’t want to admit he’s wrong.

Take two shots and pray every time you hear about your team dealing a promising youngster for an overpaid veteran that “just needs a change of scenery”.

Finish whatever you’re drinking in one chugging session if the deadline passes and your team fails to unload the one malcontent on your team that can’t get along with his teammates/manager/front office/the batboy/ or get anybody out/hit against righties/lefties/with runners on base/play a lick of defense/run the bases with even a shred of competence. If you follow a baseball team, you know the guy.

*Unless otherwise noted, if the rules above involve your team doubling the dosage is strongly recommended.

Happy trade deadline day!

Good Luck Kyle. Athough you have been the source of long frustration, I wish you well!

An interesting question has been presented, When is a good time to trade away some prospects for a playoff push?

The Twins this year has a pretty good chance to win the Wildcard, why not trade to get a solid 4th or 5th starter or a bat?

You make the trade to give yourself a better chance to play in October. If you don't, are you saying all I want is to be competetive but I don't care about winning a WS?

Anybody know about where the Twins plan to assign Ward in the minors?

There's some surprise that Ryan took pitching in exchange for Lohse... But as I think about it now, a player like Ward might be just the prescription to get Garza in Minnesota without overly thinning the minor league pitching staffs.

Ward to the Rock Cats, pushing
Slowey to The Red Wings (well-deserved, I think), and
Garza to the Twins?

It's also consistent with TR's refusal to deal Garza or Slowey as part of a Soriano package.

cal, a couple of thoughts.

First, Im not sure there is such a thing as a "solid 4th or 5th starter". The mere fact that they ARE 4th or 5th starters tells you that they aren't all that solid... especially if they're a 4-5 in the weak NL.

Pick up a bat? Only if it's better than the bat it would replace on your roster. Quickly, look at the Twins roster. Replace Rabe with Hunter. Now tell me which bat you would replace... and who was available/acquired today that you feel is better. How much better? What would you have given up?

The Tigers and Twins are by far the hottest teams in the major leagues at this moment. They just played a very close series. The Tigers picked up one mediocre first baseman and sent another mediocre 1B to the minors. Big deal. Apparently they feel pretty good about their roster, too.

Add Hunter, Guerrier and, hopefully, Garza to the Twins current roster in place of Lohse, Rabe and Eyre.

I think you make a deadline deal if you clearly have a hole to plug and it has become evidenced by costing you games lately. That simply isnt the case with the Twins (or Tigers) right now.

I'm just not disappointed at all.

I think that many folks who are frustrated with the lack of a trade tend to look at it as making a big trade versus not making a big trade. The way I look at it is whether there's a trade worth making. Frankly, if TR really did offer Baker and Kubel, I think he offerred too much, and I'm glad Bowden said no. I'm quite happy with the way things turned out. It would have been nice if we could have swung a big trade, but I didn't see any out there that were necessarily worth the price.

For those of you wishing to join the We Got Rid of Lohse! conga line, please form on me.

JimCrikket,

You are absolutely right.

De mortuis nil nisi bonum, Mike.

NIck just said he wouldn't trade Baker and Kubel for Soriano.
Is Baker in the rotation? Does Kubel have good knees? Who are you, Nick? Why would you not make that trade, especially with the belief among the blogsophere that Garza is supposed to be the fourth coming of Jesus (Mauer the second, Liriano the third)?

I need an explanation why Baker and Kubel would NOT have been a good trade for Soriano. My belief is that you are a homer and are stuck on the idea that Terry Ryan can do no wrong. He has been the GM for the Twins for more than 10 years, and the Twins have made the World Series in which year with him at the helm.

Also, what is the goal with this team, not from their perspective, but from our perspective, as fans? Do we want to see them make a run at the playoffs, do we want to see them win a series against the Yankees.

I'll be frank, and then I'm out and you can criticize my thoughts as much as you'd like: Do you think this team can make it past the first round of the playoffs, and if they didn't do that, would you be satisfied? All I know is that my fantasy would be to cheer for a team somewhere between the marlins and the Braves, where they can be consistently in the race, and every so often amass talent enough to win the whole damn thing.

Another (doutful) division or (possible) WC banner isn't good enough for me. I want more! I want the Ring to rule them all!

NIck just said he wouldn't trade Baker and Kubel for Soriano.
Is Baker in the rotation? Does Kubel have good knees? Who are you, Nick? Why would you not make that trade, especially with the belief among the blogsophere that Garza is supposed to be the fourth coming of Jesus (Mauer the second, Liriano the third)?

I need an explanation why Baker and Kubel would NOT have been a good trade for Soriano. My belief is that you are a homer and are stuck on the idea that Terry Ryan can do no wrong. He has been the GM for the Twins for more than 10 years, and the Twins have made the World Series in which year with him at the helm.

Also, what is the goal with this team, not from their perspective, but from our perspective, as fans? Do we want to see them make a run at the playoffs, do we want to see them win a series against the Yankees.

I'll be frank, and then I'm out and you can criticize my thoughts as much as you'd like: Do you think this team can make it past the first round of the playoffs, and if they didn't do that, would you be satisfied? All I know is that my fantasy would be to cheer for a team somewhere between the marlins and the Braves, where they can be consistently in the race, and every so often amass talent enough to win the whole damn thing.

Another (doutful) division or (possible) WC banner isn't good enough for me. I want more! I want the Ring to rule them all!

Mike, I'll join your line with gladness. I almost wet my pants with excitement when I saw the Twins big trade! Lohser is glad to be done with MN, but if he thinks the Great American Smallpark is going to be cake and icecream he has another thing coming.

No one likes a whiny punk, and when that whiny punk happens to be atrocious as a player too, that just makes for an ugly package that no one (at least the Twins) wants. I had said for months that I'd gladly take a wet roll of TP for him, and I wasn't the only guy with ideas like that. My buddy was more gracious thinking we could get a bag of donuts. I saw a poster here who thought maybe three bags of peanuts. And what did we get: peanuts, TP, or donuts?

HEY WE GOT A PROSPECT WITH GOOD NUMBERS!! You done good, TR. A successful trading deadline!

During TR's time as GM, he drafted and developed a core of players (the 2001 gang). Since that time, the Twins have had five winning seasons, and gone into the post-season three times.

The 2001 gang is scattered to the four winds. But while we were watching them, TR has drafted and developed *another* core of players (the Revenge of the Red Wings), and we may see another five winning seasons with them.

This year, we are poised for another winning season, another potential run at the post-season, and all on the shoestring budget Old Man Pohlad has provided for the team.

I don't know if the Baker/Kubel offer should have been made or not. But based on what we've seen this decade, I'd say Terry Ryan is doing one hell of a job.

And on the subject of the World Series... all a GM can do is get his team to the post-season, and that's the truth. In spite of what ESPN says, there is no trade, no special single person or piece that will take you from a playoff berth all the way to the championship. The post-season is based on having a healthy team and a bit of luck, and nothing available this year was going to change that either way.

Who am I? Well, first and foremost, I'm not a GM, and I haven't spent many hours thinking this stuff over. So my answers are certainly ont fully informed.

The reason I wouldn't trade Baker/Kubel for Soriano is really because of Kubel. I think Baker might be a decent starter for us at some point, but when healthy, Kubel has been excellent. I don't have any inside info on Kubel's knees. My calculus would be affected if I thought he wouldn't recover. But if he does, he should be a very good hitter for us for years to come. Soriano, on the other hand, would almost certainly be a very good hitter for us for two months.

I think our need is a starting pitcher more than a hitter, anyway. I would've been willing to pay a higher price if there were some particularly good starters on the market. Unfortunately, there didn't seem to be many.

I will agree with Carrie. The GM's job is essentially to get the team to the playoffs. Once there, it's really a crapshoot. IF the Twins can get that far this year, you have to like their chances with Santana and Liriano getting half, or more, of the starts in any series.

Has every move (or non-move) by TR been the right one? Certainly not. But you don't have to look far to realize the Twins, under his guidance, have been one of the more successful small-budget teams in the American League.

I live a 4-5 hour drive from Mpls, Milw, Chic, StL and KC. Looking at the organizations in those cities, that a person living here could choose to be a fan of, I can't see a single team being run better than the Twins, with the POSSIBLE exception of the BitchSox... and they only very recently.

The Twins would be running away with the NL Central... but they can't help it they're in the toughest division in baseball this year.

The Mets apparently went nuts because Duaner Sanchez separated his shoulder when the cab he was taking from the airport in Miami this morning got in an accident. He may miss the season. Hernandez was with the Mets last year, so the big panic was to nail down a decent setup man. Oliver Perez was a bonus I guess, but Nady is a big price to pay.

I had a feeling Ryan would stay close to the vest, but a lot of the guys I had in mind as decent bench bats went elsewhere (namely Stairs and Wilson).

I think the big deal for Twins fans will be the Yankees moves (Lidle and Wilson will likely prove more valuable than Abreu this year) and the complete inaction of the BitchSox at the deadline.
The Yankees improved a bit overall, and I think the WIld Card race is going to be a dogfight.

I see the Rangers are already not liking the metrodome :-)

Dearest TD,

Please don't get me started again.

Shakily,
LaurieNY

Dear LaurieNY,

I feel your pain. Omar Minaya historically causes involuntary vibration amongst his designated fan base. Never from his mouth or brain has come the words, "no thanks, we're good."

Mile-high regards,
TD

Welp ... my prayer this morning was that TR would stand pat and NOT give up pitching prospects for Soriano. Check. And my second prayer was that if he did that no one else in the Central would trade for him. And if they did ... they had to give up all their pitching prospects. Could have been sorta fun. Eventually. Delayed gratification.

But I will say a bit of a *misty* goodbye to my former boyfriend. He will look really hot in red. And YAY! we got more than a pair of sox in the deal, which was what I predicted!

Who's this Hunter kid that the Twins picked up to fill Lohse's roster spot?

I'm starting to like him already! Looks to have decent range in the field and can bring runners home. Should be a decent fit in the clubhouse.

Dear Mr. Hank,

You are more than welcome here, but please remember to respect other commentors and keep your discussions to the ideas rather than the people. Then we shall all get along just fine, and Batgirl will be happy.

Sincerely,
Batgirl

I was dreading facing Lee when just a few days ago I was hoping we might be the team that got him. Well, I am really enjoying a game where we are leading 14-0, the good Doc is 3-3, Punto is forgetting his last couple games, and Silva is pitching a gem! All is well in Twinsland! (Oh yeah, and Lee has an error to go with his lost in the lights gift to Doc) :0)

Good luck to Kyle, it was probably past time to see him go, but I doubt any of us bear him any real ill will. He's not dead, just in Cincinnati, though those may seem close.

Now we come to a new question, which is how good of an A-ball scrub can TR get after the deadline for that horrid green-and-yellow shirt he was wearing today. I expect he should have no trouble getting it through waivers.

man it must suck to be the Indians right now... big papi just hit his 10000000th walk off homer.

Since I work nights, I'm way late on this, but I'm very surprised to not see a single comment about TR during the game today. He was clearly very f-ing annoyed with Bowden, going so far as to state "there are no gentlemen in the game today... at least not GMs." I know he was half-kidding, but he completely implied Bowden made the offer, TR accepted, and then Bowden backed away. It sounds like the only mistake TR may have made was jumping all over the deal too eagerly.

I can't believe Bowden seriously considered Kubel/Baker for Soriano, because TR would have been mugging him & then kicking his kitten on that deal. Hank & I may not agree on everything, but Mauer/Soriano/ Morneau would just be completely terrifying to opposing pitchers. Just games into his (otherwise promising) MLB career, Kubel's knees really make it doubtful he can survive the Dome 3+ more years, and Baker's 3-6, with a 6.27. That deal is more imbalanced than the crap the Stankees pulled off today.

As for Baker, if he doesn't kill it tomorrow, Matty should be pitching against the Tigers next week. Garza can still have another AAA tuneup start, it'll just be on Sunday v the Royals. Go ahead and prove me wrong, Baker. I won't mind.

I just noticed Adam Eaton is pitching tomorrow (today, whatever). I guess Baker will get another shot. He can't lose. Eaton is HORRIBLE. The Twins should score another 15 tomorrow.

Batgirl,

no prob. I was just having one of those moments. I am over it. Especially since the game last night. I am anxiously awaiting Garza's debut.

Shout out to Nick, hopefully my vitriole was taken in jest. I think we can all be friends after an old fashion whoopin' of the Texas Rangers.

Dear Mr. Hank.

Agreed!

Yours,
Batgirl