Well, this is a nice, "we'll see what happens in 3 years from now" deal. Strangely comforting, yet unfufilling. Kind of like cranberries.

I worry that that's all we could get with J.C., who was a pretty good bargaining chip... but I can finally breathe now that I know he won't be coming out of the bullpen with runners on base.

Godspeed, J.C. I think he'll fit in well in Anaheim.

Dammit. I was hoping we dangle JC in front of Baltimore's nose and go "Look! Look! A lefty!"

This opens up a spot on the 40-man, since Casilla isn't a 40-man guy and JFC was.

That means there's a spot for a free agent. I wouldn't be too surprised if there's a signing by the close of business today.

Well, although teh Angels' bullpen was just fine, apparently they were sans lefty.

http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051207&content_id=1278484&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana

For what it's worth, Rollercoaster Alexi nabbed that Midwest League Player of the Month in July for racking up a .500 on-base percentage! ... then broke his finger in August, ending his season.

Bat-girl, I am your Designated Hitter.

Bah ....... that should have read

(que Darth's music)

(heavy, machine aided breathing)

Bat-girl (more hmab)I am your Designated Hitter

(que Batgirl screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOO)

oh no - Castillo - Casilla - what will Bert do?!?!?

JC it was nice knowing you -

Much Love
Wonder Woman

Jlubby,

The Angels have been consistently without a lefty for several years and it hasn't seemed to hurt them. In fact, lefties in the bullpen seem to get Sciocia confused more than anything.

On a broader note, is this all they could get for JC Romero? A somewhat punchless middle infielder who isn't even ready for the high minors yet? I had sort of expected a higher rate of return, given the free agent market and the hand with which Romero throws. Oh, well.

It will be odd not seeing JC as a Twin but at least I won't have to be frustrated with his melt downs during the games.

It's disappointing that we didn't get more but I'm sorry to say that I'm not surprised.

Anyone know if Dougie Baseball has landed with a new team?

And there was much rejoicing.

A little Angels perspective on the trade... basically they're laughing at us.

http://mb3.scout.com/fanaheimangelsfrm1.showMessage?topicID=1710.topic

C Joseph -

It's true they've done just fine without lefties in the 'pen, but apparently it was something they really wanted.

Let them laugh, we'll be the ones laughing as he meltsdown and lets 5 of our batters score in 1/3 of an inning.

Torhu-

Indeed.

-Chris

Maybe Terry Ryan's like an addict--he can't break his habit of trading for prospects only.
This better be part of a deal that eventually sends this prospect (with no power) on to some other team for someone who can generate offense for us now.

Somehow, this smells of a flip. Was there anyone else out there jonesing for this guy? Anyone jonesing for one of our infielders that Castilla would then replace?

blah...very disheartening...

Baker for Blalock? As much as I'd not like to lose baker, this is looking like the best option...then sign Piazza or Thomas at DH. (I would rather trade Lohse for Blalock, but I don't know if that would work)

did Anaheim really want a lefty in the pen badly enough that they would trade for Romero? weird.

and someone mentioned the 40-man earlier. did this space need to be opened because of the pickup of Pirdie (sp?) in the Rule V draft yesterday? if my Minnesota math is correct, the 40-man is all squared up again.

and good luck to you JC, but i was hoping we could send you and Lyle/Kyle Lohse for Kevin Youkilis. guess i can forget about that now.

Well, at least the new guy's Batnickname has been established:

Alexi "Cranberry" Casilla

Jeb,

Hey, one thing at a time. We threw out some trash today. Can we at least be happy about that? I'd love a DH, too, but if it turns out that any decent DH would have cost too much in return (which might be likely), then I'm loving this trade. Looking at our roster and not seeing the names Romero and Rivas puts a song in my heart. A happy song, with a nice catchy chorus, and I will be dancing. For whatever befalls us next year, it will be as a merry band of brothers, free of the malevolent influence of the Triumvirate of Suck. Well, at least 2/3 of them, and it's even money we send Lyle packing, too.

Terry Ryan. An American hero.

TeeNutts -

Actually, I couted 39 on this 40-man list:

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=min

HooliganKat - Actually, the JC I'll remember is the one who continually let in only his inherited runners, but somehow managed to shut a team down before his own batters could come around to score.

Can't say I'll miss that. JC will be another rally-monkey, but for LAAs opponents. I've said somewhere before, the words that made me cringe the most often during Twins games were "...and JC Romero is warming up in the 'pen."

My guess is if he doesn't make the rotation out of Spring training Liriano will start the season as the lefty-reliever out of the 'pen, much like Santana.

Re: The 40-man

This was full (40/40) before the Castillo trade

Castillo on, Tyler off, Bowyer off (39/40).

Rule V (Pridie on) (40/40).

JFC off (39/40).

One open spot.

The Angels fans appeared a little bewildered about getting JC for so little. I don't believe that the inherited runners thing is very widely known outside of MN (unless, apparently, you are a baseball exec, they all appeared to know).

A massive source of frustration has now been removed from my life and I can stop taking my high blood pressure medication.

I live in Cedar Rapids, and the idea that all they got for JC was one of our Kernels... well it makes me a little sick to my stomach. But honestly I don't follow the Kernels very closely, maybe he was a super-stud and I just never heard about it.

So I haven't followed everything very closely, but isn't Grampa Mullholand probably gone too? Removing all the lefties from our own pen? So who are our lefties gonna be? If Lohse sticks around one will obviously be Liriano. But if Lohse goes and Liriano's in the rotation, then who's in the pen? Or are we assuming Terry will still be around?

power is what we need. The 2 guys we picked up in trades hit 6 homers {3 in the minors} last year.Does T.R. understand what needs to be accomplished? Are we dangling lil' n.p.out there? He could bring a backup bullpen catcher.

If this is used to sign a free agent by freeing up money and a roster spot...while getting a prospect of some value...this isn't bad at all.

Dave Gassner, Justin Jones, Jose Mijares, Errol Simonitsch

OMM is gone.

People, give TR some credit! You won't be grumbling when TR pulls off some master-genius plan. I'm thinking that this was a temporary acuisition. Hopefully, we'll pull off a Baker-Durbin-Casilla for Blalock trade.

The story out on ESPN sheds a little more light on the trade.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2253819

Long story short, JC Romero was still sulking and asked for a trade.

[A FALSE RUMOR THAT THE TWINS SIGNED FRANK THOMAS, COMPLETE WITH A BAD URL]

How was JC disrespected??? I don't remember Gardy throwing anything at him????

Much Love
WW

Flippy,

I get a 404 when trying to acces your Big Hurt story...what's the deal???

Before anyone rends their garments/throws a Terry Ryan ticker-tape parade over a Frank Thomas signing, lets see a link that works... the one Flippy gives doesn't go anywhere.

It better be...just seeing that made my heart race...we need a masher at DH...the Big hurt would be great

I suggest posting a good link soon, Flippy, before these fine people come after you for starting a vicious rumor....

I just made the rounds to the Strib, Fox Sports, and ESPN. No mention of Frank Thomas on any of the front pages.

Nothing in the Chicago papers or on the Twins site, either.

That's a cruel thing to do

That feeling I get when JC comes in with the bases loaded and the game on the line.... that wondering whether he'll walk the hitter, go 0-2 and then bean him, or just chuck one to the backstop... that will actually be kind of enjoyable now that he's not a Twin. IMHO they would have improved the team if they'd traded JC actually, literally, for nothing. And I just gotta say, that ESPN article amuses me to no end.

Amazing that J.C. can have as fantastic a year as he did back in 2002 and all anyone can talk about is how happy they are for him to be gone. OK, so he hasn't had great years since then, does that mean he will never find his stuff again? So easy and quick to jump to conclusions.

I never figured Twins fans to be the "what have you done for me lately" types. Maybe the recent success has drawn in those kinds, because I don't remember anyone like that back in the Dark Times of Twins baseball.

Before getting too excited/upset about the Romero trade, I'll reserve judgment until TR is done with all of his offseason moves.
A shining example is that when the Twins had Kenny Rogers they paid him $2 mil a year and now the Tigers get an older version of the Gambler and pay him $8 mil a year.........er, maybe that's just an example of overpaying by the Tigers.

"I never figured Twins fans to be the "what have you done for me lately" types. Maybe the recent success has drawn in those kinds, because I don't remember anyone like that back in the Dark Times of Twins baseball."

Well...we can either idolize all our players for everything they've ever done or we can move on and try to create a competitive team.

Over on TT.com at one point, somebody posted a list of Twins relievers rated not by inherited runners scored, but by expected inherited runners versus actual inherited runners. (http://www.twinsterritory.com/Members/ubelmann/index_html/romero/view?searchterm=romero,%20crain)

Example: Reliever enters the game with runners on second and third with one out. Reliever allows a sac fly, scoring a run, then gets the final out. Based on widely available base-out expected scoring tables (for instance - http://bayes.bgsu.edu/papers/situation_paper3.pdf - scroll down to page 5), that situation has an expectation of 1.32 runs for the offense. The reliever thus gets credit for +.32 runs prevented.

At the time this analysis was posted, Romero had allowed five of fourteen inherited runners to score, but because the situations in which he'd pitched should have resulted in seven of those runners scoring, Romero was actually two runs ahead of the game. Meanwhile, Crain, who'd allowed just two of nine inherited runners to score, had actually done far worse than expected, since all nine of those runners had been standing on first base with two outs when Crain entered the game.

I don't know that anybody kept up on this analysis (and the Baseball Prospectus 'Relievers Run Expectation' stat isn't quite the same thing), but the idea that Romero wasn't as bad as a naive interpretation of his raw IR numbers would indicate isn't at all ridiculous.

"Well...we can either idolize all our players for everything they've ever done or we can move on and try to create a competitive team."

Wrong. Is your world black and white only? I see a majority of people claiming that Romero was not worth a damn and will never be successful again. I'm not advocating idolatry, simply an awareness that while he may have been on the downturn at the end of his career here, he had some good seasons with the team and was even *shock horror* LIKED by many Twins fans at one point.

Or yeah, we could do like you want and demand a team that does nothing but win and have no attachment at all to players once they no longer serve our own personally perceived usefulness.

Unrelated topic:

Alfonso Soriano has been publicly quoted as saying he "will not" play anything but second base for his new team, the Washington Nationals.

Nomar Garciaparra has been publicly quoted as saying he will play any position but "pitcher and catcher" for the team that would be interested.

If you ask me, I'm glad we never got Soriano, and I think we should push for a guy like Nomar.

Back to your regularly scheduled Romero musings.

"Or yeah, we could do like you want and demand a team that does nothing but win"

Fine by me. That's what the whole idea of the game is about. Not that I'm advocating cheating, and winning by any means...but the game is about winning.

Meanwhile, The White Sox got one of the best bench players in baseball for a similar relief pitcher they didn't want.

Kenny Williams >>> Terry Ryan

You chopped the rest of that sentence off and omitted the main point I was making, so you really aren't addressing the issue I was talking about.

"Kenny Williams >>> Terry Ryan"

haha...okay

One good year and it all goes to their head

My health insurance premiums just went down.

Yeah, the Bitch Sox fans are getting awfully bold. It's good this way. By the end of last season, the team's players and manager were doing so little bitching, it wasn't quite as easy to hate them. Nice of the fans to step in and take care of that for us.

BTW, we'll see how those Thome and Konerko loadstones work out before deciding whose GM is >>> than whose.

Loyalty has to work both ways. Of course JC was appreciated when he was effective, just as anyone is. But when your performance goes downhill, you can do one of two things... you can work on your weaknesses and take responsiblity for your performances or you can blame others for your failings. Romero chose the latter route and in doing so lost the respect of many Twin fans.

He was a distracting personality in the club house and regardless of the level of success he has in the future, it was time to move him elsewhere for anything you could get. Other GMs knew the Twins almost had to get rid of him so there wasn't going to be much value offered. Most would have probably been willing to wait until March when Romero in all likelihood would have been released.

I saw Casilla play several times in CR and I like the kid. He's got the kind of raw talent that we see come through the low-A ranks occasionally and causes us to think "this one could make it". Whether he pans out for the Twins or someone else down the line, who knows? But it's better than getting a bunch of broken bats for Romero.

The first time (or the second or the third or the tenth) that Romero allows 2 inherited runners to score but manages to get the side out before the runners he's "responsible for" get across the plate, Angels fans will know why they got him so cheap.

When JC walked off that mound before Gardy got there and couldn't handle getting pulled like a man I decided I wouldn't want a guy like that on my team, I also don't want to cheer for him. That's why I don't have a problem that he is gone. I just wish we could have gotten more.

In a similar fashion when Loshe took a bat to Gardy's door I began to hope he would be moved this offseason. Plus Baker I think will more than fill in for him. I'm tired of hearing about how Loshe won 14 games one season. I guess that makes me another, what have you done for me lately fan.

Maybe its imagened on my part but I want to root for a team where the majority of the guys are pulling for each other and trying to win as a team. I thought previous Twins teams played that way and it's too bad that it looks like that has changed some. I hope JC being gone is step 1 of going back to the way thing were.

I sound like an old man!

Bring back the powdered blue jeresys LOL

My advice t othe Halos would be this:

As soon as Romero walks into the clubhouse, put a large cardboard box over him. Cut eye holes so he can see, and then let him be untill you need him. Once they need him, let him pitch, then they should put the box over him again.

This will solve all of their issues with him, except of course, his annoying little habit of letting runners score again, and again, and again, and again.

Jim, I see what you are saying.

However, I don't remember J.C. blaming others publicly for his problems. He has mentioned many times he feels disrespected or under-utilized, but I don't think that equates with shifting blame. In fact, I seem to rememeber after his blow-up he explicitly said that he didn't want to blame others for what happened, and that his job was to go out there and pitch when they wanted him to.

But who knows, he is a Twin no longer, so I guess it is irrelevant.

And thanks for the info on the Casilla kid. His OBP excites me, even if he is a young player.

Marte >>>> Romero

Marte can actually get a left handed hitter out without breaking his elbow with a pitch. JC came in a bunch of times last year for the sole reason to get a tough lefty out and he too often either walked the guy or hit him. Of all of JC's walks, more than half were against left-handed hitters. he actually pitched better against right handers. If Crain doesn't bail JC out of five or six jams last year, the latter's ERA is around 5.

Marte is unhittable to lefthanders. Given the choice, I would infinitely rather have Marte. Check that, infinitely plus 1.

About Casilla, my understanding is that the Angels view their farm affiliates as equals and distribute their prospects among the teams. Is this true?

Also, this trade clears some payroll in order to make a free agent signing somewhere down the road. We call up Liriano, let him start in the pen, add a hitter with the spare change we have, and its all good. Trust me on this.

Ryan,

If that "understanding" of the Angels' farm system came from my 'Cave post, you're taking what I said somewhat too far. (I probably overstated the issue by calling their farm system placement "almost random", anyway.)

Unlike teams like the Twins who promote players a step at a time, the Angels will put a player wherever they think he'll do the best. Sometimes it leads to a better prospect with better skills being placed at a lower level than a worse prospect with worse skills.

Casilla was probably in low-A most of the year just because he was young and/or their low-A affiliate had the right coach for him. The Angels are also deep in mid-level middle-infield prospects and can only play a couple on each team at any given time.

I think in most systems, he would have been a good high-A player or average AA player, depending on how their depth is at his position. It's likely the Twins are indeed looking at him as a replacement for Castillo and future #2 hitter (behind Span, who will take over for Stewart eventually).

Eric-

You do us a disservice. I, for one, have disliked J.C. Romero since the beginning, and have never shied away from saying so. With JC, it's not "What have you done for me lately?" but rather, "Why are you a crackhead?"

Statistics do not a Minnesota Twin make. Having that good year never quite made J.C. a Twin in my eyes, just as Guzman's defensive laziness (and his offensive impatient laziness, which was so absurd as to be almost breathtaking) made him fall short of Twinhood in my eyes.

Now Koskie? That was a Twin. Even when he was hitting .250 and in desparate need of a backiotomy, he exuded Twinness. When such a player departs, even though you may know the team may benefit in some way, you shed a tear and let them keep their parking space in your heart. As annoying as AJ could be, I had no doubt that if some disreputable Tiger or Royal picked a fight with Koskie, for example, AJ would go all insane in the membrane on such a person. Even though we had The Second Coming waiting in the wings, AJ was still classy about how he left, and he was a Twin (though willfully signing with the Bitch Sox has cast doubt on his Twinness. The jury's still out on that, but I can't help still liking the irritating jerk). Eddie Guardado, while just as nerve-wracking a relief pitcher as JC, was a Twin. JC just never displayed the requisite completely subjective traits that I demand. Intangibles. Good teammate-ness. Joie de vivre. I'm hesitant to make this argument, because it's so unbelivably subjective, but that's what's fun about sports. In my eyes, Bert Blyleven is so obviously qualified for the Hall of Fame, I get apoplectic when people say otherwise. But smart baseball people disagree, and that's the fun part.

It must be nice for you to be so morally superior to the rest of us who rejoice at JC's departure. I never developed the personal attachment to JC that you suggest is appropriate. I am not obliged to love JC for having a better than average statistical year in 2002. He was a selfish headcase of a nutbag then. He's a selfish headcase of a nutbag now. I do not, as you suggest, "demand a team that does nothing but win." I do demand a team that acts with a modicum of dignity, treats the manager with respect, and generally behaves like a group of professional adults. As to my personally perceived usefulness of JC, that involves several things, including primarily not being a selfish headcase of a nutbag, not letting inherited runners score, and generally acting Twin-like. Since World Series wins are few and far between, I'd rather lose with a team I like than do slightly better with a team that doesn't represent what I think the Minnesota Twins should be (read: the scrappy attitude of Punto, the smile of Torii, the fundamental soundness of Mauer, and the ebullience of Johan). Win or lose, and statistically speaking, we're going to lose the Series a hell of a lot more often than winning it, that's a team concept I can be proud of.

"I see a majority of people claiming that Romero was not worth a damn and will never be successful again." Pretty close, but not quite there. I had high hopes for JC after 2002, despite my concerns about his volatility, and thought he could have a good career here. Clearly, that was not to be. So he was worth at least a little of a damn. That being said, you're right. I don't think he'll ever be successful again, absent intensive psychological treatment. Oh, he'll be exciting, because he's got great stuff. But successful? Nope. He's just not mature enough for it. And I'm thrilled he's gone.

In all seriousness, when JC started warming up, did you ever once think, "Oh, goody! I just KNOW JC is the right person to shut this emerging offensive threat! Good call, Ron!" Seriously?

In other notes, Nomar would be a nice 3B pickup. I do think he would fit in here nicely. And though it pains me to say this, Piazza might be a good fit as the DH/occasional backup catcher. Though I'd go a little crazy if he ever played 1B here. He's not so good at that.

--In all seriousness, when JC started warming up, did you ever once think, "Oh, goody! I just KNOW JC is the right person to shut this emerging offensive threat! Good call, Ron!" Seriously?--

No, everyone on the face of the earth clearly thought exactly as you did, you bastion of humility you.

Judging the value of a player is an entirely subjective thing, despite what the statheads think. His worth to the team both as a player and a person isn't an immutable truth. Just because people don't think he was a good fit here anymore for whatever reason doesn't mean that they're fairweather fans.

And frankly I'm a little surprised anyone would suggest it.

Ahem.

Did I suggest that everyone had to agree with me? I meant my post to be completely subjective, and thought I did so. Reasonable minds can disagree about JC's worth as a player. Take a nap. I was prompting you to offer a defense of JC that was more than "He was a Twin, so we should like him, and he was good in 2002."

Doesn't anybody feel even a LITTLE bit sad JC's gone? I kinda do. And even though he was a little moody, hey, aren't we all? Although I must admit I always felt considerably safer when they called in the Crain Train instead of JC.
I mean, JC was kinda cute.

Sure, whenever a player leaves who's been with the organization a long time there are some mixed emotions. Missed opportuntiies, good memories and all that.

The idea of occassionally hiding Piazza at 1B wouldn't raise my blood pressure all that much.

With the execption of all-palmolive team regular Dougie Baseball, "good defense" and "plays first base" go together about as well as "Ferrari" and "Minnesota Winter".

cheers,
-cdi

It sucks not getting much for romero, but it beats the hell out of getting nothing for him. especially when we free up his chunk of the payroll to replace w/ a bat and get a solid prospect in exchange

cdislicker-

True enough. I guess I'm just having trouble getting the Sportscenter clips of Piazza errors at first base out of my head. I adored Matty Go Boom, and it's not like he had Dougie's glove at first, so Piazza spelling Morneau every once in a while would be a nice way to keep his bat in the lineup. I'd argue that Piazza is actually worse than LeCroy at first, but you're probably right that it's insignificant.

-- Judging the value of a player is an entirely subjective thing, despite what the statheads think --

Entirely subjective? Don't be daft. Such an assertion, while not disprovable (since it doesn't rely on any supporting evidence), is patently out of line with the truth and probably not, if you search around in your heart of hearts, what you actually think.

And as one of "the statheads", I really love being classified as part of some cabal. It really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, and certainly makes me forget that "the statheads" are a diverse community of persons, most of whom have never had any contact with each other whatsoever, and many of whom have widely differing views on how much of player evaluation is subjective. How about I start refering to everybody who doesn't rely heavily on advanced metrics in their evaluation of baseball players "the Luddites"? Sounds good to me.

Rant over. Sorry.

Drinking mountain eating Doritos and just wondering aren't there like 35 teams interested in nomar. so is don't think we should starting to think we are going to land him. Piazza is possiable but something like a 40% chance at best and thomas looks like he is going to play for the A's so the reality is if you take out the option of trading baker and larino and the fact that TR is know for getting something for nothing a gm's are getting aware of that it looks like we need a miricle of a chirstmas miricle for Terry tiffee not to be our opening day shortstop. On the bight side we have carl everett to fall back on for a DH. I guess what i'm saying is i need a beer.

Third baseman not shortstop sorry ishould really start reading what i write.

"Entirely subjective? Don't be daft. Such an assertion, while not disprovable (since it doesn't rely on any supporting evidence), is patently out of line with the truth and probably not, if you search around in your heart of hearts, what you actually think."

I shouldn't have said entirely subjective. All that I'm trying to say is that there is some room for discussion about Romero's value to the Twins. Would you agree that's valid? What I object to is the idea that statisics are the lone tool to be used in evaluating a player's worth. There's more to it than that, and apparently Ryan agrees otherwise Romero would still be with the team.

"And as one of "the statheads", I really love being classified as part of some cabal. It really makes me feel all warm and fuzzy, and certainly makes me forget that "the statheads" are a diverse community of persons, most of whom have never had any contact with each other whatsoever, and many of whom have widely differing views on how much of player evaluation is subjective. How about I start refering to everybody who doesn't rely heavily on advanced metrics in their evaluation of baseball players "the Luddites"? Sounds good to me."

Or how about you take another off the cuff comment that wasn't in any way meant to be offensive and completely fly off the handle about it.

I was hoping that J.C. would have been included in a package with Lohse for a good hitter. This trade reminds me of July when Rincon went up to JC in the bullpen and told him to sit down. He faked J.C. out soooooooooo bad. Funny stuff...

So it sounds like the love for Romero is, at best, mixed.

Casili is something of a question mark, but there's little doubt in my mind he'd be a top prospect in a number of systems. Unlike most Angels prospects, he actually has plate discipline. He'll probably never hit for power, but that's somewhat beside the point. The Angels dealt from a position of strength and tossed yet another quality SS/2B prospect to get a flawed but serviceable reliever. This works for both sides. I'd call it pretty even, honestly.

Ryan --

<<About Casilla, my understanding is that the Angels view their farm affiliates as equals and distribute their prospects among the teams. Is this true?>>

Well, they don't generally let prospects skip levels in general, a complaint that the AA Arkansas club had when they were Cardinals affiliates and -- oops! -- Albert Pujols just went straight to AAA. Casilla was stacked about six players on the way up to Anaheim, and there was simply no way he was going to be on Stoneman's radar, especially not with Brandon Wood and his 43 home runs last year, and Orlando Cabrera ahead of him.

I have no problem being called a Luddite so thanks. But I'm not sure how that title works here.

Anyways I'm happy to read that there are others who believe that certain players are "twins" in quotes and not just members of the Minnesota Twins baseball club.

This "twins" quality is often what I am most proud of in being a fan of this team. And yes it's purley subjective and relies on my feelings not my head.

Luddites unite!

At this point I have to just trust Ryan since he still hasn't given me a seat at the decision making table.

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of Darth Thomas coming over to the rebellion but I wouldn't mind Piazza. A lineup that has Tiffee at 3B and Cuddyer at RF plus Thomas or Piazza and Castillo sounds like a big improvment.

GO Twins!

I don't think some heard you Batgirl =)

Much love
WW

In the interest of lightening the mood, I'd like to present the BG "Is it worthy of a Windsor?" list for the offseason:

Trading two minor league pitchers not yet ready to play large roles on the major league roster for a player who fills a gaping hole?

*fanfare* Windsor!

Trading a tempestuous, oft-misunderstood reliever for the 19th-best infielder in the Angels organization?

*buzz* Not...

TR's human, and thankfully not too drunk yet.

Well, after studying this deal, I've come to the conclusion that Terry Ryan has to make deals like this one, where he "loses" the deal in order to keep other teams interested in dealing with him.

If he won every deal and made every other team look like idiots, noone would EVER deal with him.

Yeah. That's my story and I'm running with it.

Dear readers,

The next hostile post, and I will have to close the thread. Please return this discussion to DEFCON 1, as Batgirl is getting cranky.

Sincerely,
Batgirl

I Love Lamp? I guess that's how i felt about JC he had his moments and he had his not moments but overall his career stats say he was a above average reliver or better. So i guess this move was really about getting rid of his 2.2 mill caontract becuase it does leave us with out a lefty in the pen personally i would wish every twins good luck after they leave us no matter what the situation so good luck JC. Hopfully we will do something with the money we saved. I need another beer.

Heh, honestly thought we could get *something* more out of him...

As I said before, TR seems more crafty this year. Anyone else notice?

Miller signing with the dodgers not that we were still looking at him

I trust Terry Ryan. The bucks saved on JC will go to some partial part of a free agent's salary, or allow the Twins to trade for a more expensive guy.

Dear Batgirl,

Apparently a simple "Ahem" wasn't quite enough tonight.

I do hope your threat to close the thread will do the job. ;-)

As for me...

I have a small musical interlude.
For those of you who recall the lyrics to the song "Hosanna" from Jesus Christ Superstar, I humbly offer this thought...

"Hey J.C., J.C., you just frightened me, with how many runs you would allow..."

Hallelujah!! We have a new second baseman in Castillo, and to put the icing on the proverbial cake, Romero's gone.

It's shaping up to be a decent off season. Slowly but surely I think T.R. will get Batgirl the DH she (and we) are all hoping for, and perhaps even the 3rd baseman too.

Then we can really have much rejoicing!!

Well, I think this trade is actually going to be good for not just the Angels but for JC. For whatever reason, it just wasn't going to work out here. That's too bad. He can be a nasty lefty when his head's clear.

It's hard to get much for someone that everyone knows you're either going to trade or release. Kind of like how we didn't get anything for Restovich. But, at least TR gets a prospect. You know how we love getting prospects and developing them.

The tale of this trade won't be known for a few years to come.

yeah thats a good point i think that is part of the reason that we haven't been able to move loshe either because we have been shoping him forever. and everyone knows it so they don't want to give us much. In baseball you have to move a guy pretty quick once you put him on the market before poeple discect them and all thier weaknesses and don't want to give you anything for them.

Let's hope the kid they picked up is as fast as his numbers jump out at you. JC will get more sun in LA, maybe that'll calm him down and he can get a few more years out of his arm. The way he's shaped, with all that strength in his legs, when his body decides to get old he's going to lose his ability much more quickly than lankier lefties like Moyers & Mulholland, guys with moxie who move the ball in and out with a-plomb. JC has little moxie and less plomb. When his hard stuff goes, or he can't throw it for strikes as was oh so excruciatingly often the case, he's gonna bomb.

Given that trading Romero was pretty much inevitable and the whole world knew it, there isn't a whole lot to complain about in getting a solid prospect back. I suspect not much will change with J.C. once he gets settled into Anaheim: he'll look pretty good at times, and decidedly awful at others -- just like with the Twins. Whether we flip Casilla or keep him, I think this was a good (if unspectacular) trade either way. Let's keep 'em movin'!

'

The cold and the dark seems to be making some batlings cranky. Thank goodness the Winter Solstice is almost here and that JC is gone.

I AM SO HAPPY THAT JFC ROMERO IS GONE!!!! WOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!

:happydance:

Fumbly:

Me too--happy to see JC gone--I cant remember the last time I was happy to see him warming up.

I believe TR traded JC just to open a roster spot and save $2.5 million (JC salary). So what if all we got is minor leaguer with some potential two years from now--we got a roster spot--a bullpen spot for Balfour next year (if healthy) and 2 million to chase a hitter.

TR has done well in the past--lets give him a chance to see if this works--besides one bad trade a year makes him better than most GMs.

Oh. My. God. Has anyone else seen the note that the Twins might consider resigning Corey Koskie?

If you go to www.twinsbaseball.com, then go under the JC article, then Hot Stove Rumors, and then Rumors, there is is in black and white.

"The Twins... are mullling other options, including former Twin and current Blue Jay Corey Koskie...

Now I'm all excited. OMG, COREY!!!

I don't see anything like that, kierra. want to provide a link?

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051208&content_id=1279582&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

line about Koskie maybe coming back and Cubs looking at JJ.

http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051208&content_id=127958&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

i think i got that right.

Re: Koskie

They'd have to trade for him, because I think the Jays gave him a 3-year contract. And given that the Twins weren't willling to match that offer last year, and that the Blue Jays don't really want Koskie anymore, the Jays would have to eat a chunk of his salary to make it happen.

But the Jays are one of those teams with some excess third basemen, and with Mueller off the market and the Rangers stubborn about giving up Blalock ... it seems more feasible now than it did a few months ago.

(I heart Corey Koskie.)

That's a lot-o comments . . .

The prospect of Koskie coming back is interesting, but I just dont see it as being very likely that Toronto would pick up his salary.

Ryan, you asked about the Angels distributing their players evenly... CR is definitely their 'Low A' affiliate but they do usually send a few of their better prospects here. CR built a new stadium 3 years ago and at the same time re-signed with the Angels. Since then, we've been getting enough talent to be competitive and keep fans showing up at the ballpark. They dont send all their best prospects to "high A" and leave the dregs at "low A" like some teams do.

All together now, Twins fans: GOOD RIDDANCE

I think that's the reaction the Twins fans would say in unison.

God I am so glad that piece of crap is gone. He was a fucking loser period. Words can't describe how I felt about that jackass. Not only did he stunk on the field, but he stunk off the field too. He had a maturity of a 9-year old. Always had an excuse when he stunk. He would blame it on A.J. when he stunk and he would blame it on Mauer, the infielders, Rick Anderson, and Ron Gardenhire. It was never his fault when he pitched like garbage. Yeah he did great at times, but did any Twins fan found him to be reliable when he was on the mound. Everyone was waiting for him to fail. He never had that composure to do well. He never had that confidence and personally, I did not think he had the self-esteem to do well either. When you think of the word "loser", Merriam-Webster should have a picture of J.C. under the word "loser".

I hope he gets his butt kicked with the Angels. In fact, I know he will fail. The fact that the Twins got a player that is unlikely to ever play for the Twins just shows you how worthless this guy was. J.C. never became the same when he got his butt kicked in the ALCS by the Angels. Maybe Mike Scioscia can get through to him, but don't bet on it.

Like I said, good riddance to bad garbage.

All together now, Twins fans: GOOD RIDDANCE

I think that's the reaction the Twins fans would say in unison.

God I am so glad that piece of crap is gone. He was a loser period. Words can't describe how I felt about that person. Not only did he stunk on the field, but he stunk off the field too. He had a maturity of a 9-year old. Always had an excuse when he stunk. He would blame it on A.J. when he stunk and he would blame it on Mauer, the infielders, Rick Anderson, and Ron Gardenhire. It was never his fault when he pitched like garbage. Yeah he did great at times, but did any Twins fan found him to be reliable when he was on the mound. Everyone was waiting for him to fail. He never had that composure to do well. He never had that confidence and personally, I did not think he had the self-esteem to do well either. When you think of the word "loser", Merriam-Webster should have a picture of J.C. under the word "loser".

I hope he gets his butt kicked with the Angels. In fact, I know he will fail. The fact that the Twins got a player that is unlikely to ever play for the Twins just shows you how worthless this guy was. J.C. never became the same when he got his butt kicked in the ALCS by the Angels. Maybe Mike Scioscia can get through to him, but don't bet on it.

Like I said, good riddance to bad garbage.

No really Leslie, quit beatin' around the bush. How do you really feel about JC?

Alexi is sexy

I just wanted to apologize for starting a bit of a flame-war there. I have a temper, and I'm exteremely good at provoking people. I'll try to remain calm in the future.

Leslie is much meaner than I like it to be around here.

Sass and tact go hand in hand.

I was hoping J.Ro would be moved to the other league. We know if the man ever gets his head on straight, he will be a good pitcher, and moving teams might shape him up (although, uh, I hope he goes back to his usual self when he sees Gardy on the bench when we play against him). But I'm fine with the trade. We got rid of J.Ro's salary, and, like Kurtis said, my health insurance premiums suddenly dropped.

And, for the record, if TR trades Baker for Blalock, I will question his sanity. Looking at stats (which I shant repeat here), Blalock could almost be Cuddyer's twin--'cept without the dimples. And, uh, Cuddyer has a better total fielding percentage.