Seriously? Booberry?? He's, like, BITTY!

Oh, Dear is right.

More from AP:

Rincon's agent, Ed Setlik, said a grievance was planned. But unlike other penalties, suspensions under this policy take effect immediately and are not delayed pending a hearing.

"Suffice it to say, he was devastated and stunned by the result," Setlik said after speaking with Rincon.

Rincon has a $440,000 salary this year. The suspension will cost him $24,044.

The penalty also will hurt Rincon's chances to earn bonuses of $10,000 for appearing in 68 games, $20,000 for 73 games and $30,000 for 78 games.

Will we know have to call him JuiceBerry?

oops....how about "will we NOW have to..."

Are there "non performance-enhancing" drugs on the banned substances list? Maybe he spent some time in Jamaica during the off-season ...

Seriously though, I think it's irresponsible to assume he tested positive for steroids. There are many substances banned under MLB's rules.

The good news for you who call him your boyfriend. Apparently Boo will now have to strip and watch the games from the stands:

"Setlik said he believed Rincon will be allowed to work out with the team during the suspension, but once the games start he's prohibited from being in uniform and cannot be in the clubhouse."

I hope he was just hopped up on Sudafed the day of the test and not on the juice! This is very un-Twinslike.

Oh, man.

I had been very proud of the fact that neither Twins nor their minor league teams had been involved in steriod controversies. Not anymore. I hope there's been some sort of mistake, but mostly I'm just sad.

I have to agree with TwinsGoddess, though--Boo's not exactly the first person I'd expect to be on the juice...

~Carmen

Nor I. It seems very odd.

Is Viagra banned?

are there many substances banned? what are they? methamphetamines aren't banned--and players use speed all the time. the article i read said he tested positive for steroids or steroid precursors. it's childish to think that minnesota twins players are somehow morally superior to other professional athletes. i don't even think it's a question of morality-until very recently there has been little to no chance of negative consequences for mlb players who use steroids, therefore nobody should be surprised to find out that their favorite baseball players use them. their livelihoods depend on their performance. until now they've been given defacto permission to use performance enhancing drugs. steroids were built into the game of baseball. speed still is. grow up and accept it.

If Viagra is banned, why does Palmeiro promote it? Interesting...

If Boo's fighting the suspension, maybe there was a mistake somewhere along the line? Maybe his pee cup got mixed up with someone's from another team? Please, please, please let it be some kind of mix-up!

just 'cause I don't remember, which of our boys said, "look at our clubhouse - we have nothing to hide"?

I am grief-stricken. Boo? no...

Boo...

Infield brought up an excellent point in the other thread, which was that if Boo was guilty, the last thing he would want to do is file a grievance and keep the scandal in the headlines.

I'm allowing for a spark of hope, here.

Kafumbly-
I think it was Cuddy.

There aren't any specific details about what is on the banned list, but there's this from the AP story back when Alex Sanchez tested positive:

"Everything on the banned list is a Schedule III controlled substance except for Human Growth Hormone," said Gene Orza, the union's chief operating officer. "There is nothing sold over the counter after Jan. 15, the effective date of the new [federal] legislation, that is a banned substance."

daveedo - childish or not, this is not a team full of idiots going to the airports with loaded guns in their bags, beating their wives, or similar. Terry Ryan has ensured that the team has players that stay on the straight and narrow, that's my point, not that they're morally superior. While I agree that "they've been given defacto permission to use performance enhancing drugs", I have yet to hear a credible source say that players use speed all the time.

Ouch. I hope a little Preparation H clears that up right away.

"I am grief-stricken. Boo? no..."

ditto

Well, okay, human growth hormone I would believe. But I'm sure he was just feeling inadequate next to Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau. Poor little fella.

Seriously, though. The odds were that SOMEBODY would turn up positive, even in the Twins clubhouse. I just never would have guessed it was Rincon. Weird.

Perhaps "banned substance" means something else in Spanish?

I also think this has got to be some crazy mix-up.

Or some innocent misunderstanding.

I hope.

I just don't get it. Juan Rincon? Seriously?

As I said in the post prior, I am sure he tested positive because of some over-the-counter supplement, but really this is not an excuse, even though it is seemingly innocent (hey, I just had 2 glasses of wine! How could I possibly have blown a .10 on the brethalyzer?).

If this is the case, what needs to happen with all clubs is the players need to consult with the team trainer on ANYTHING he is planning on taking - now or in the offseason.

Alex Sanchez? Juan Rincon? What? Rincon is like 5'1" 105 lbs. Bonds, Thome, Sosa, even Justincredible Okay, but little Mr. Berry. Loco! No comprende.

I'm sad.

First my boyfriend loses yesterday.

Now, this.

Oh, Boo....

Very sad.

Say it ain't so, Boo. :-(

Dear Instant Karma -

Instant Karman may come back to haunt you

WW

It's Okay, WW, I deleted.

This is really surprising. This guy is listed at a "Joe on the street" size: 5-11 Weight: 192

Are these guys taking stuff that they don't know will turn up on a test? Are the tests so accurate that there needs to be no due process?

Not be an apologist for Rincon, but the thing I don't like about the policy is that there so little information about what turns up on the test . . . what substance? what performance enhancing drug?

I hope our starting pitcher from Rincon's part of the world doesn't have the same offseason trainer.

I remember in the 80's, when I was in junior high, NONE of the Twins chewed tobacco. I believe it was a campaign against kids using tobacco. I remember being very much proud of our bubble gum chewing Twins.

these are the Twins I grew up loving, and these are the kind of Twins I want to love for the rest of my life.

I sincerely hope that this is all a mistake, because I really love Boo, and I hate having to fight hyprocisy. I want none of that shit on our team... and I want Boo not to be a 'roided-up phony.

say it ain't so, Boo. say it ain't so.

For all you panic stricken, remember he's only the first. There will be bigger names on other teams suspended in the near future. Let's take the punch & roll...we don't need Boo against the Cayahogans anyway...

I'm just shocked. I hope this is all some strange misunderstanding/misdiagnosis.

The sad part is, the grievance hearing isn't likely to happen until after he serves his suspension. So this turns out to be a case of "guilty until proven innocent".

k-bro

I'm hoping htis is something like a plot I was tempted to carry out at a previous job. The idea was to eat poppy seed muffins by the case. Poppy chicken. Any place I could consume poppy seeds, I would. Then get into a tiny minor accident, take the whiz-exam, fail for opiates. Get suspended or fired, sue for wrongful dismissal. Show the court all my poppy-related receipts. Win a bunch of money.

Hoepfully this is something like that.

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!

I realize that our boys aren't morally superior to every other team, however, it's BOO!! I just. . .I can't. . or even think . . .I can't believe this.

I will wait to see the results of the appeal, before making any judgements on him. I'm just baffled by this.

Clearly there is concern over false positives. That being said, I think the best place we can look to ascertain the seriousness of this charge is to the Twins' clubhouse. When people like Torii talk about it, then I'll take those words to heart. If his teammates act in genuine disbelief, then I'll follow suit. Until then, I've got to face the facts that one of my guys has let me down.

I am devestated and confused. Rincon?!? I worry that I was served several days old dome dogs on Sunday and this delirium is just a horrific side effect. My goodness! Rincon?!? I guess I am in a stage of denial, the first step towards acceptance.

For what its worth bear in mind that NONE of the guys who have been testing positive so far have been the big musclebound power-dependent sorts... it's all been little speedy guys and, now, Rincon.

For whatever it's worth I offer nonTwinsfan condolences. First big name guy to go down, I'm sorry it had to be on your team. I hate living in terror that one of my boys will test positive one of these days (and I don't count Alex Sanchez, since even when he was a Tiger I hated his incompetent guts).

Actually, these are his dimensions according to the Twins website:

Height: 5'11" Weight: 215

Not exactly "bitty," but nowhere near Giambi-like gorilla status, either. Baffling, I tell you.

Incidentally, his name has already been asterisked on the 40-man roster. Sad.

Random thought --

If Boo was on 'roids, shouldn't he have been able to get to the mound faster than a dying turtle during the Pudge/JC fight? Doesn't the slowness of the whole bullpen basically disqualify them from showing obvious signs of unnatural enhancements?

It's a crazy world.

Any word on how the Twins plan to use Scott Baker? If there is any good news out of this whole debacle it might be that a rising star in our organization will get the chance to hopefully shine! Maybe he will get a start in sometime this week so I can hopefully get a chance to see El Presidente pitch when the Twins come play the O's next week in Baltimore!

I'm not that surprised. While everyone points the finger at sluggers like Bonds and McGwire, in actuality, pitchers probably have more to gain from steroid use.

Steroids help your muscles to recover. Think of it. What if you could find something that would allow you to pitch four times a week. It's not about building muscle, it's about recovering from the strain of pitching. That's why it makes more sense for pitchers to use steroids. So, if a juiced batter is hitting home runs off of a juiced pitcher, exactly who has an unfair advantage?

To actually build the muscle, you have to lift weights. You don't just inject with steroids and bingo you have 30 lbs. of muscle.

Just see if any players from one of the major markets get caught. Bet no Skankees, East Coast Bitch Sox, or Dodgers on the 25-man roster will be suspended this year. As to the suspension, what happened to due process? Guilty even when proven innocent? Or have the politicians who hijacked religion for political purposes, taken due process with them as well? (Oops...off-topic rant; my apologies)

I'm not sure if anyone said it already, but I don't believe that it says anywhere he was tested positive for steroids. He was tested positive for a banned substance according to the Steroid policy, it isn't neccessarily steroids.

I think.

KIR- I don't think El Presidente's going to pitch for us. The way it's looking at the moment, barring changes in the rotation, it'll be Lohse/Cabrera Monday night (hot headcase starter on headcase starter action!), Jackal/Bedard Tuesday night (best chance for a pitcher's duel), and Bradke/Ponson Wednesday afternoon (likely to end ugly for the O's, unless they work Bradke's rough first inning for all it's worth).

Not that seeing El Presidente wouldn't rock, but right now, I'm not sure I want him facing the O's lineup. The stress on my heart might be too much.

I love this site, love all the comments, but the last two posts and comments have thrown me a little. 1st off, I heartily believe the Twins are good people, but that does not preclude one of them from using steroids, without anyone elses knowledge. 2nd, it certainly follows the pattern MLB seems to have set of starting small and building. Boo is better than anyone named so far, so who knows who will come later? Also, I am not an MD or anything, but I think you can use steroids and not have a giant cranium or arms like a Giambi.

And I should probably post this on the other comment, but tax $$$ are not for Carl, or any other multi-billionaire. And the fact that's it not a lot of tax $$$ in no way makes this ant more acceptable. And there have been plenty of studies that show the whole "look at all the jobs it creates" argument is bogus. What if we took the millions of $$$ we gave to Carl and put it toward job creation, or useful purposes that employ people, like the CCC in the 30's?

My 2 cents. Love ya all,

Chris
Flagstaff, AZ
(Minnie transplant)

THANK YOU BATGIRL =)

much love
Wonder Woman

A lot of people (and I'm not talking baseball players) take steroids to heal from stress of injury and to help with inflammation. This was something canseco even said...however medically unsound he is. With a relief pitcher, it might help deal staving off a sore arm. I don't know nothin' bout nothin', but it seems to me muscle mass ain't the only reason someone might think about cheating.

Appeal or not, there is no need to hold off on at least one judgment and that is that Juan is apparently a moron. I doubt that the testing process is fraught with error and false positives. I would certainly expect the MLB is confident that there testing procedures are sound. Accordingly, any player that takes anything with even a remote chance of containing an ingredient that is banned or could even be construed as banned is, in my opinion, a moron. I don’t care what team he plays for, even if it’s ours.

Juan is a big boy and certainly knows the rules. Any current MLB player knows the risks of taking any drug, OTC or not and should take proper precautions. My wife is not an MLB player, a physician or a pharmacist but by God she knows every ingredient of every drug she takes or gives to the kids. If she can do that – every ball player should be able to as well. If they can’t there are certainly dozens of people in the organization that could help them determine what kinds of medications, treatments, vitamins, etc that they can, can not or shouldn’t take.

A ban is a ban, there are not levels of innocence or guilt here. Yes, there are most certainly some grey areas but in my opinion there should not even be anybody flirting with that.

The bottom line is this: They found something in his sample that was banned, he KNOWINGLY took whatever substance it was and he should pay the price. I’m not devastated OR confused – I’m pissed that one of our boys did this.

SDave

Not everyone who takes steroids is taking them to bulk up -- one of the effects of taking steroids is to decrease recovery time.

It wouldmake sense that a reliever might be interested in those properties, if it allowed him to pitch more days consecutively, or bounce back more quickly after pitching.

Some guys take over the counter stuff (shakes, supplements) that have ingredients they don't even realize have now been banned. The banned substance list was very recently updated, so if you have some stuff from before then, you're now a bad boy. I have a feeling that's the trap both Boo and little Alex Sanchez may have fallen into.

Crap! I Hate juice with my Booberry!

Carrie-

Thanks for the update! I figured that would be the case but was hoping there would be a chance to see him pitch. As for the series, I don't think it will be pretty watching Kyle Lo(h)se on Monday, but that is the game I can go to.

As for the rest of you, any thoughts on Baker??

I'm sorry Laurie, I can't agree with that - everybody in MLB knows, or at least has no excuse for not knowing, what has been banned. If your $500,000 paycheck is on the line, everybody should be able to take the 30 seconds necessary to go to their training and say "hey Doc, can I still drink this stuff? No? Ok."

No excuse for not knowing. They know...they all know.

As a Bitch Sox fan who likes (no, that's not strong enough), really likes it here, I'd like to offer my .02.

Athletes take steroids to help with muscle recovery, mostly. As a pitcher who has to go 3-4 days in a row a good deal of the time, Rincon may have thought he needed a boost and decided to go for it. Sometimes you get caught. He probably won't do it again.

For those of you who wish to get of Rincon, I am sure there's a GM on 35th and Shields who would love to make you an offer.

"I have yet to hear a credible source say that players use speed all the time." -- BW
BW, I'm not ripping you here, but I'm not sure who sure who you would consider a credible source. Before he died, Ken Caminiti was very candid about his use of steroids and greenies (speed) and he sain that there were 3-4 guys on each team not popping greenies. That estimate may be way high, but when you're in a long game on the West Coast and you fly back to the Midwest for a game the next night and you have a few achy joints and your kid has a bad cold... . You catch my drift, I trust.

I hope Rincon comes back strong, because he's a hell of a competitor and (please don't rat me out), I like watching him pitch.

Love, Peace and Hairgrease

Just sent in my "pro-ballpark" message. I was so excited when I saw the "ballpark deal" headline on the Strib web site a few weeks ago. If this falls through again ... well, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I can't say I won't go to any games at the Dome, because that would be a lie. I guess I'll just be upset. But REAL upset.

Regarding Rincon, a bit disappointing, but not tragic. We knew that they weren't boy scouts. It's only 10 games, and hopefully it'll serve as a warning to any other boneheads on the team or in the league. Funny, I'm normally pretty ambivalent about steriods. I figure that 95% of the football players are on something, and it doesn't really bother me. As long as the playing field is level (i.e. they're all doped), then - while I'd prefer that they were clean - I figure it's their life to ruin. Baseball is different though, since the players are - more so than other sports - compared not just to their contemporaries, but to the players of the past. So I want to see them clean it up, and Selig's three strikes policy seems pretty good. 10 days is a slap on the wrist, 50 days is fairly harsh, and life is ... life. I'd actually prefer a year suspension between 50 days and life. In fact, I'd rather see 1 year, 2 years, etc, but I suppose that a 2 or 3 year ban might as well be life.

Great quotes turn out to be timeless. Recall BooBerry after his game 4 blowup against the Yanquis: "No one wants to be in my pants right now."

So many meanings.

SDave... I'm only saying that it cannot be automatically assumed that it was done deliberately. Sometimes people are just careless and/or stupid, or they just take it for granted that they know all the facts when there's still more to know. Sometimes even when there's "no excuse" not to know something, we still don't.

Maybe he knew and maybe he didn't. Maybe he was sneaky, maybe he was ignorant. That's all I meant.

Well, funoka just listed Boo's weight at 192, and then TwinsGoddess said 215. How old is your source, funoka? That's a scary discrepancy.

Guilty or not, Juan's reputation will never be the same, especially as he's trying to get people to forget about his blowing the ALDS. I don't know what to think.

I have to say that this ruined my day and has seriously put a damper on the season. And I have to agree with Skorch from the last thread--if Rincon knowingly took steroids then the Twins should trade him. I don't want a cheater on my team, I want the damn moral high ground.

Here's my inital reaction:

http://twinsterritory.com/Members/TheSoulPatrol/index_html/upsidedown/view

This f'in sucks. Sorry for the harsh language, but it does.

Anyone else just kind of going around with a blank stare on their face?

I seriously am in shock and disbelief hours after hearing it.

We need the moral high ground.

I can't help but wonder when this test was given. Boo probably had a milkshake for his tendonitis problem with his knee and didn't realize it contained a newly banned substance. He's probably been drinking those shakes for a year now. Tough way to learn English, or a lesson, but that's the new rules. By the end of the season I wouldn't be surprised to see 50-100 guys get a 10 vacation.

Someone, I think on the West Wing, said that Americans tend to forgive someone who confesses to something rather than someone who covers it up, no matter how heinous or insignificant the act. The best thing Juan can do now is come out and say "I screwed up, this is how, now everyone learn from my mistake. Nobody wants to be in my pants right now." I don't care what happened, whether he deliberately doped, or he unwittingly took something that's still legal in Venezuala but not so much in America, or even if he didnt make sure it was his cup that got sent in and not Randy Moss's. While I do believe this is an honest mistake, I also think hat he should own up to what happened, at least his part of the problem and let time heal his reputation. If it turns out baseball screwed up too, then they need to come clean just as much as Boo.

TwinsGoddess and Silo...

all I can say is that I never really take what they say on the team website as fact.

After all, those are the same people that claim that Lew Ford is 6'. I have stood next to him - there is NO WAY he is 6'.

I think they let the players put their stats in on those things..

Oh. As for the stadium, I'm all for taxpayer money going towards it (even if it was my money ;) ) as i is a public use facility. High school tournaments, concerts, and other gatherings would be held there. The Metrodome is host to 4 seperate teams and a wide variety of other events, as I suspect the new stadium would be. The only reson you should be opposed to the new stadium is if you are also opposed to things like art museums and playgrounds. You hate children, fun, and you have no soul. (Mostly kidding, finals and steroids have made me bitter)

Cheatin Twins. I always knew a small market team had to cheat to keep up with the big boys.

LMAO

I am kidding. This is terrible news.

SBG has a great point. Pitching is a game of inches and a game of tipping points--Either a strike or not, either a hit or not. Anything that would help in either of those categories would be a boon to pitching.

Hitters on the juice just work out harder, and maybe get a placebo affect at the plate.

TBird - Stand by your pitcher. He's given a lot to the team over the past few years, to your team. I hope the Twins organization shows some loyalty and keeps him.

Stacy-- me too. I'm walking around school today with a dazed look. Heck, I almost flipped out on one of my friends when he started giving me crap about it. I just can't deal with the fact that one of the Twins took a banned drug.

The worst part about it is I go to a school in DC where people come from the entire country so I have to hear all the S*** from Yankees/Red Sox/Phillies/Bitch Sox fans and everybody else. I want the moral high ground back really really bad right now.

Whenever some tests positive for a banned substance they never say what the substance is. It could be roids or coke or speed or pot.....

But if it is roids I wonder if he will come out and say he is sorry, but not what he is sorry for and if Twins fans will kill him for they way they kill Jason Giambi for it. See there is no evil team and there is no good team. No moral high grounds.

MikeQ--if it was a mistake, and Rincon just wasn't paying attention, then that's fine. Mistakes happen. I forgave him after Game 4 last year and I'd forgive him for a mistake.

Intentionally taking PED's however, is unacceptable.

And don't worry, I'm trying to stay true to the principle of innocent until proven guilty, and I want to know if it was a mistake/intentional before I demand anything, but I do not want anyone on the Twins that is intentionally cheating. I don't care who it is--Mauer, Morneau, Rincon, El Presidente, Torii, whoever--if they are intentionally taking steroids they have no place on the Twins. So if Rincon was intentionally taking steroids, then he should be traded. I pray that he wasn't.

Chris,

You're so willing to give us your two cents. One more cent and it would be three.
And you didn't even have to spend 20 bucks.

bubblemint

I don't think Rincon intentionally took steroids. It's probably something he took not knowing it was on the MLB banned substance list. There are so many things people take to recover from competition. I was an college athlete and have seen a lot of different things people take. Not steroids, but creatine, and different vitamins, and milkshake type things they mix up. I still think Boo-roid is a good guy, and whatever the substance he unknowingly took will ever happen again.

Not to sound negative TBird, etc.... but there is no 'innocent until proven guilty' with substance abuse... Rincon has already been proven guilty and that's just that.... he more than likely dosen't use enhancers all the time like Giambi used to, but in the mlb it is zero tolerance, meaning even a little bit of use is wrong.... and that's the way it should be quite honestly

Okay, I've had a few hours to recover from the shock. Here are some semi-coherent thoughts: maybe this is weird to people who grew up with other teams, when we scream we want the moral high ground. But, as someone else pointed out: these are our bubble-gum chewin', straight-shooting Twins. We don't always expect them to win, but we _do_ expect them to play the game right. We're not lenient to ego trippers, head cases, and cheaters (erm, that nail file in Niekro's pocket a possible exception). I do know that one of the reasons the Kirby Pucket.. um... thing... hit this state so hard a couple years ago is that we really _do_ expect our Twins to be Good People. Is that weird/naive of us, given that athletes are people? Maybe. I'm not saying other teams' fans expect their players to be raving sociopaths, or even just bad people, but I do think we've had a higher standard of our players.
As for Boo-- if that test was a clean positive, then either he was negligent (not checking what he was taking) or he thought he could get away with it; that the benefits were worth the risk. It isn't really a pretty picture either way. How the fans deal with him later should depend on how he deals with us and the situation.
As for other teams: I think this is the tip of the iceberg. There will be more. Everywhere. People who sh*t on us now will have it happen to their own players. I mean, really, does _anyone_ think that Boo, of all people, would be the only major leaguer to be taking a banned substance? And this _is_ a team that has encouraged fair play, which only means that no matter how loudly a team has screamed that it's against steroids... there's probably at least one player like Boo-- whatever that turns out to mean-- on it. This is going to be a nasty summer, but it needs to happen.
Finally, the important stuff: I'm glad Cuddy's getting back into form, I love watching LNP play, and FREE TERRY TIFFEE.
Back to your regularly scheduled Batgirl.

From a Twins fan standpoint, it is disappointing that Rincon tested positive and is out 10 days.
However, I have to agree somewhat with Benji regarding "innocent until proven guilty". Unfortunately, he has tested positive for using SOMETHING. Whether that is steroids, marijuana, coke, LSD, or super-Boo-berries, he still tested positive for something that is on "The List". The "innocent until proven guilty" applies to people such as Bonds, who, while we may strongly suspect him of doping, has never tested positive for anything and therefore has to be presumed innocent.

May good come from this, in the form of Scott Baker (and hopefully Terry Tiffee shortly).

I'm not kicking anyone when they are down, but to pretend that there have never been cheaters on the twins is crazy.

Guys scuff balls, use things on them, take drugs of all kinds. If you want to believe that your team wouldn't ever do that you are allowed.

btw Kent Hrbek pulled that guys leg off the base, he cheated and got away with it. :)

Twins blood is the same color as Yankees blood it looks like.

My map to the moral high ground gives advice like "walk a mile in another man's shoes" and "to err is human, to forgive is divine."

If Rincon used a banned substance, I'm very disappointed. Really, I'm bummed out to read this news. But once he pays the penalty--which is a 10-game suspension for a first time offender--I'm not going to turn my back on him. He's still our guy. We need him in the fold. I won't call for him to get shipped out because he made a broke a rule.

We all make mistakes, and sometimes do something that we know we really shouldn't. I don't think there's anything particularly "moral" about washing your hands of anybody who's been caught making a mistake. His paying the penalty handed down by the league is enough punishment for me. I just hope he's learned his lesson and will stay clean from here on out. He deserves the chance to make good on this, and I'll support him on it when he rejoins the club.

I hope for Rincon's sake this is false or mistaken. This will hurt the Twins image BIG time.

Funny though, of ALL the players...including the big names on the Yankees who've already CONFESSED...that it's the little Twin that gets busted in the bigs first.

Gee Mr. Selig...coincedence maybe?

If it's true, God (and TR) help him. He's put his team in a bad place. And has now put our WHOLE organization underfire.

Can't WAIT until the Bitch Sox get ahold of this news.

Katharriet-
Thanks for making me realize I'm not alone here. I thought maybe it was just because I grew up on a farm and was taught to expect the best of everyone. I am clinging to the hope, however unrealistic it might be, that there was some kind of horrible mix-up and Boo really is innocent. If that isn't the case, I guess my second-best hope is that he didn't realize whatever he was taking is banned.

Actually, Alex Sanchez was the first big league player busted under the new rules.

I'm with you there frightwig. If Juan took the juice he shouldn't have. If he claims he didn't know he was taking the juice he a) is lying and shouldn't do that or b) should have known what he was taking. Either way, he did the crime and now he will do the time.

I certainly don't like the fact that he did the crime and will think less of him for his error in judgement but I will at the same time look forward to his return to team. Let's look at it as a lesson learned for Juan, for the rest of the team, and for us, the fans.

Now lets play baseball!

The part I don't agree with in this whole "banned substance" extravaganza is that you're suspended without being able to defend yourself--it's shoot first, ask questions later. Plus there's no line of demarcation between taking Benadryl for allergies and shooting up anabolic steroids or whatever. We have no way of knowing if these guys had one borderline ingredient in their protein shake or they're doing heroin. Are they taking HGH or smoking the occasional joint? There IS a difference, and the situations should be treated differently.

I just used the "contact us" thinger on the Twins website to send them my support. this whole thing has been quite eye-opening for me. I have always lived in my own little dream world where Twins and Wild can do no wrong; that crap is left for the Vikings and Timberwolves.

but Twins and Wild are my little pseudo-families, and I love them as my brothers (except for the few who are my boyfriends; they are not my brothers, because that would just be yucky).

anyway, I am forced to face the fact that my little brothers (there are only four Twins older than I) are not perfect, and I am forced to accept that I can't view this issue in black and white anymore. and I must say, here, that I still have one foot in my dream world... so if Juan says it was a false positive, or that it was a mistake and he'll never do it again, I am prepared to believe him. he is my little brother, and I will stand by him.

man... it would be easier if it had been one of my favorites from a different team before a Twin, because the "getting over it" part wouldn't be so urgent. but in 10 days, we'll see our little Boo Berry in action again, and I want to enjoy my cereal in peace.

The other problem with some of these suppliments is that the companies that make them are very dirty. Some of them make suppliments with banned ingredients and only put the legal ones on the box. There have been a lot of NFL players burned because of this and the FDA really needs to crack down on thes suppliment companies doing whatever the hell they want because theyre flying the "All Natural" banner.

I hope boo is innoccent. I really do.

I was in the car on my way to get a root canal for the second time in two weeks when I hurt that and I was crushed. I just, dont know what to say.

Somewhat tongue-in-cheek, is it worse that Boo is suspended or that a catcher batting .000 is allowed to impersonate a professional hitter?

FREE TERRY TIFFEE!

Listing Juan Rincon as 5'11" 215 is a disservice to all the NCAA full-backs that actually are that size. I'd be surprised if he's 5'8" 180 on concrete stilts.

Free Boo.

Boo is my boyfriend, and my heart is broken.

Shack Attack-
I think the worst thing is that Boo and said catcher are on the same team.

Anyone else think it's interesting that 4 of the 5 players who have tested positive so far are Latin/Hispanic? If they are buying products in their home countries, maybe the labeling is different there? Something to ponder...

Another thought- Kyle Lohse is the union player representative. Maybe he forgot to give Rincon the updated list of banned substances! Maybe we can blame this whole thing on Kyle!
;-)

Katharriet,

I am with you all the way. Amen. The Twins are my boys--they may not always win (they may not even score), but they WILL play the game the way it's meant to be played. I am all about the moral high ground, but, to be fair to Boo, I will wait until all the evidence has presented itself.

~Carmen

I'm a bit surprised...well, really surprised.

And Lohse is our union guy? Somehow, I am unsettled by that too.

For those of you who want to know how a player could not know what he's taking, the "milkshakes" and any other item classifed as a "nutritional supplement" are not regulated by the FDA -- therefore, no one is checking to make sure that the ingredients on the label are what's actually in the item. And there have been documented cases where ephedrine and steriod precursers have turned up in items that were touted as steroid free. I think it's assumed that because of some lawsuits against the manufacturers of this stuff, the problem has been fixed, but the FDA still has no jurisdiction so there is still no one checking the contents.

I dearly hope that's what happened in this case. It bothers me that there isn't even a chance for a brief appeal before he starts his suspension. I wonder if the union will insist on that if they accept the longer suspension plan Selig's pushing.

Tomorrow is the stadium meeting. Good timing...

I agree with those who are concerned with the inability to appeal before serving the suspension. I have no idea if Boo is innocent, just took some supplement containing a banned substance he didn't know about, or did something really bad.

For those who say he IS guilty, I disagree. Some people who fail a Breathalyzer are not actually guilting of DUI. Machines are imperfect. And if the reading is correct,and he is guilty of taking something, there really are different shades of guilt in my mind.

I'll say this one more time and then I'll leave it alone...if you were making $450,000 to throw a ball - would you, knowing that there is at least a remote chance that there are banned substances in your nutritional supplements, your shakes, yours creams etc, have all such items looked at by your team doctor?

Of course you would.

The ignorance plea is ridiculous - it is every players RESPONSIBILITY to confirm compliance with the rule. Simply saying the label said it is ok is not a valid excuse - especially given the fact that the issue has come up many times before. Yes, Juan might not have known for SURE that he was taking something - but he probably suspected he was, assumed he was, or, at a minimum, didn't do anything to confirm that he WAS NOT taking a banned substance.

Compliance is simple - you have someone check EVERYTHING you put into your body that might be suspect. He didn't do that, he now has to sit. Hopefully he and others have learned. I just want him back in the bullpen ASAP.

Pepper... it can't be Kyle's fault...

blame Lyle! The Curse has struck again!

down with Lyle!

SDave is right on the money. I'd like to add that trading Rincon, as some have suggested, would be the stupidest thing in the world. No one is going to give the Twins what he's worth back, considering this new 'baggage'. He's going to miss ten games and then come back and be Super Setup Badass Juan Rincon again for the rest of the season, which is exactly what we need. Be disappointed in his character, but know that the Twins will not make an October run without him.

sw

"Whenever some tests positive for a banned substance they never say what the substance is. It could be roids or coke or speed or pot"

Nope, the M.L.B. drug policy covers only steroids or "steroid precursors." Other illegal drugs, like coke, speed, and pot, are banned, however M.L.B. does not test for them.

I think it's kind of funny that most people here are trying to think of other reasons why he tested positive and how he can't be a fault, but when it was Giambi there certainly wasn't anyone sticking up for him. Dirty is dirty. If Giambi is a big headed scum that has lost a lot of weight, and Pudge "skinny" Rodriguez are guilty without failing a test because they aren't Twins, but there must be some kind of black magic at work if a twin tested positive.

Of course i will stand behind Juanie...I agree with the whole..it may be something that may have been mislabeled in the latin countries...I was devestated to see the news about him. I love Little Booberry....He's the man...Positive or not...I will stand behind

they also test for diuretics. i believe some diuretics are available over the counter. i also believe that they are tested for because steroid users take them to clear out their system. So i think the proper logic is: a steroid user likely uses diuretics, but not all diuretics users are on roids.

so while it would be really dumb to take a diuretic when you know it is banned, it doesnt equate to steroid use

mike - Part of it is that a lot of people don't realize that steroids/etc. will help a pitcher's arm recover faster (hello appearance incentives...) or a smaller, stolen base threat become more explosive. The casual fan thinks that steroids = big burly home runs, b/c that is what the media focuses on. For every Giambi that tests positive there will be 2 or 3 Alex Sanchezes or Juan Rincons. Steroids, if used intelligently, have the potential to help any 'type' of ballplayer. How it effects their body depends on the workout regimen they employ.

sw

Can I just urge everyone to not make this news bigger than it is? Surely Rincon is in hot water, but he's not the first, nor will he be the last. Additionally, he may not be the last Twin to test positive, so brace yourselves. There is some level of fault on the part of Rincon, but the range of possibilities is enormous. It doesn't serve anyone well to jump to conclusions one way or the other.

SDave, the argument that players have 100% responsibility to confirm compliance is a bit overstated. We all know that there are things we don't want inside things we consume. What's in your Dome Dog? Traces of something you're allergic to - even though it's not listed in the ingredients? Sorry, buddy, it's your own fault you're in the ER.

All I'm saying is that as hard as we try, nobody can have total control over what's going into their body. Does that mean they should be let off the hook? No, but all I'm urging is that since (a) nobody can have 100% control over what's put in their supplements/shakes/domedogs, and (b) no test is perfect, as was mentioned in someone's earlier post, we should show a little patience before we pass judgment on right and wrong. Should Rincon be supsended under the league rules? Absolutely. Is he without a doubt in the wrong? Certainly not.

Also, for those of you who don't believe "innocent until proven guilty" doesn't apply here, let me be the first to say that you are hereby proclaimed guilty of steroid abuse by my long-distance internet steroid abuse tester (zero misses to date!), and you should not cast stones at others in a similar situation. Good luck proving your innocence.

Meanwhile, Boo, you've got some 'splaining to do...

umm, I didn't mean to pull the double negative in my previous post. I meant to say "those of you who believe 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't apply here..."

Mike, this probably isn't the best time.

It occurs to me that we might also be taking this harder than is strictly necessary because of El Presidente's loss yesterday. It's always a hard thing to find out that our beloved players are human, after all. These are two fairly significant blows in that department in less than a day.

Myself, I plan to drink a beer and mope, and I think it will probably all be better tomorrow. At least, in the grander scheme of things.

Mike, this thread is about Rincon, not Giambi or Pudge -- neither of whom have been tested.

I'd like to know who's doing the tests and how they are administered. Do they use a lab that's been certified to do specifically this type of work? Was it blood or urine? Certain substances stay in the body for differing amounts of time; believe it or not, your blood can be clear of certain substances well before your urine is. Do they do an initial screen and follow it with a more sophisticated test if the initial screen shows positive? Can he request a second, confirmatory test?

I'm sorry; I know way too much about this stuff from exposure to employment-related drug testing programs and the problems that can occur. Drug testing automatically carries a presumption of guilt. It works very much, I think, like the notion of implied consent does for drivers.

Was it Pepper who wrote about different labeling requirements in different countries, and substances that are unregulated in the U.S.? The point about Latin players being the only ones fingered thus far is a very interesting one.

Thanks, QJW. It IS an interesting point. Of course 4 out of 5 players is far too small a sample size to draw any conclusions, but I think it's something to keep in mind as the season progresses and more players test positive.

I am willing to give Boo the benefit of the doubt for now. However, I want every suspected steroids user to get the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty. And don't forget, all of the big name players that have been accused of using were allegedly using these substances when they were not banned. However, if you feel that these players should be banned from the Hall of Fame, or have an asterisk placed next to their name, then the same should be done to Niekro, who got into the Hall, despite being caught on the field cheating, numerous times. The things he got caught doing were against the baseball rules since 1920.

As for what Rincon tested positive for, I believe that the only things baseball can test for under the Bargaining Agreement is enhancers, for someone who has no history of illegal drug use.

At least that was my understanding before the whole steroids and congress thing from this time around. Unlike the other unions in the other two major sports, I'm sorry I don't consider NHL to "major" anymore. The MLBPA believes that it's members should be treated like most other people who don't have a job in national security or one where you are responsible for others lives. They believe in the right to provacy and believe that ownership and labor, are two different entities who have different goals. Owners want all the money to themselves, while players want it all for themselves.

Although he wasn't on the 25 man roster anymore, the Grant Roberts, formerly of the Mets and best known for having a picture printed in the papers showing him taking a massive bong hit from his minor league, got a suspension a couple of weeks ago. Just after Alex Sanchez. He got it with that group of 38 minor leaguers I believe.

Finally, as for the size of the players that are busted for steroids, "Little" Nicky Punto is listed at 5-9 190 pounds, while small for a big leaguer today, that is pretty big for a man in very good shape. My sister's boyfriend, real, not Twins, is about 5-9 and is struggling to reach 170. He is a personal trainer who has worked out nearly every day since he was thirteen, he is now 24. That's about the same size as Mickey Mantle, one of the strongest players of his day or any time.
Whether this is just because players today work out or because we are bigger as a people or they all used stuff at one time or another to give them a jump-start on getting big.

I do feel sorry about you guys losing the moral high ground. I have one question though, as a Mets fan. What does it feel like to have the moral high ground? My team never really has been any where near close to that level. The greatest team in Mets history and probably the most revered by anyone under 45 is the 1986, that had at least three cokeheads, Strawberry, Gooden, and Keith Hernandez, to go with a bunch of guys who liked to drink and get wild everynight. I recommend that you read "The Bad Guys Won" about that team. They were among some of the worst people you would ever meet, but I still love them. Don't even get me started on the "Worst Team Money Could Buy" 1991.

I take a prescription medication for epilepsy that actually tests positive for heroin in drug tests. Go figure.

Another Mets fan in Batworld. Y'all just can't shake us, can ya? Yeah, the moral high ground... not too familiar in these parts. The Twins were, before today, my--no pun intended, but hard to avoid--good twin.

Nahhhhh. They still are. Can't shake THAT either.

If this affects the stadium I'll be pissed off. I can absolutely see people latching onto this and deep sixing all the hard work. I've seen them do it for less.

With three straight AL Central titles, the Twins have been lauded for their success in a small market and have received several organization-of-the-year awards from various publications. For a franchise proud of its positive image, it was a bad way to start the week. Though publicly offering support for Rincon, the Twins weren't happy to hear it, either.

"It's a tough day," Gardenhire said. "I think we're all surprised, but hopefully we'll get through this thing. We'll let the process take its place and do the best we can.

"We're on his side. We've always stood by our players. They make mistakes. They're humans. It's a learning process for everybody."

--From ESPN

This is what makes the Twins an Excellent Organization.

sacky, no I don't know what's in my dome dog. But if there is even the remotest of chances that there is something in it that might jeopordize my $450,000 paycheck I'm going to either have the trainer check it out or I'm not going to eat it.

I recently noticed that Rainbow Foods carries Count Chocula and Frankenberry, but NO BOO BERRY. Could it be because it contains performance-enhancing substances?

Seriously, though, I hope that both Rincon and the Twins make a quick public appeal to help clear their names. They can deal with the 10 game suspension, but not the cloud that will hang over them if this goes unaddressed.

QJW -

I share your suspicions about testing and the drug policy. While I don't know the answers to the specific questions you asked, I do know this - many of the Category III controlled substances under U.S. law are not treated the same in Latin America and may be more freely available, not just labeled incorrectly.

Redbird made a good point that many of the OTC supplements are not regulated by the FDA, so non-Latins may be the ones who are inadvertently taking these substances. While 4 of 5 suspended have been Latin, many non-Latins at the minor-league level have also been suspended.

And I don't think a team doctor would know the composition of these products beyond what was listed on the label. A player would have to hire a personal chemist to be sure.

I think it's been an eye-opener for most fans that the suspended players haven't fit the Bonds/Giambi slugger stereotype.

And to T-Money, it's Cuyahogans.

TribeScribe

After looking it over, I have to say I agree with Laurie - it seems very likely that MLB is catching players who are taking things that they don't realize are illegal...in this country.

Check out - http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/Sports/Baseball/03SportsCUBS01042305.htm

Specifically:

"Exactly what banned substance Chirinos tested positive for isn't disclosed by Major League Baseball. However, Chirinos said in an interview conducted through an interpreter that it was a protein shake mix he obtained last November in Venezuela, his home country. Cubs officials have speculated that some over-the-counter products, like the protein mix Chirinos said he took, have ingredients on the lengthy list of banned substances."

There were 47 players suspended in the minors for violating the substances policy, and the minor league list is significantly larger than the major league list, in that it includes 'recreational drugs' and 'greenies', which aren't on the big-league list.

Alex Sanchez was born in Cuba, and Agustin Montero was born in the Dominican Republic. And despite what some have tried to say in this thread, it's not obvious what substances are on the 'banned list' (just try to find a copy of it), and the league doesn't actually say what substance you tested positive for when they hand down your suspension. As the story linked above notes, players don't necessarily know what substances are banned and what substances they might be taking - especially if those substances aren't illegal in their home countries.

I feel no loss of the moral high ground - just the moralistic high horse, which we don't really need to be on.

I am inclined to note that most of the players fingered so far, particularly the ones in the major leagues have been foreign born, but I also need to point out for thoroughness that Rockies outfielder Jorge Piedra is from Southern California. And as for the part about the doctor, while SDave makes a good point that s/he should be consulted, there is nothing that says Rincon or Sanchez or anyone else that has been fingered didn't consult a medical professional. The problem is, the doctors anyone trusts most aren't team trainers, but rather family doctors. Again, what is legal in Cuba and Venezuela is most definitely not always legal here. But like I said, the best thing Boo can do now is explain what happened as soon as he is clear on all the details.

"If you put 1000 guys in a room, the person you would last expect to test positive for steroids is Juan Rincon." - Tim Kurkjian

"If you put 1000 guys in a room, the person you would last expect to test positive for steroids is Juan Rincon." - Tim Kurkjian

What a perfect quote....pretty much what everybody here was thinking I would guess.

For all we know, SlimFast has some sort of now-banned substance in it. And unless you have access to a fully equipped medical lab--and the knowledge that goes with it--you'll have a pretty hard time figuring out what is and isn't allowed. Even if you are a trainer.

Again, I just wish there was some sort of "please explain yourself" process to ascertain the whole truth before the guy's name is plastered all over the news as a cheater. I'd much prefer it if a guy could say "I was drinking this shake, here is the container and it doesn't list that banned ingredient, so I didn't know" if that is by some chance the case. Or some kind of recourse before you're branded and suspended. The way it's done now is a witch-hunt.

BG and Twin-kin:

I'm another immigrant fan who roots for another team (Tigers) and enjoys this site.

Since I haven't followed the Twins real closely, can anyone explain the 'moral high ground' that the team has over others? Is it based on being a small market team or something else?

For lots of different reasons, I'm not trying to draw comparisons between the situations. But what was the general reaction among Twin fans when SI did their 2003 feature on Puckett's off-field troubles? How, if any way, does he play into the 'moral high ground' idea?

While Gladden is my favorite Twin, I liked Puckett a lot as a player and I'm not trying to kick anyone when they're down. Heck, in Tigertown, being down = regular season. I'm just trying to understand the 'moral high ground' thing.

My guess is, as much as we like 'our guys,' they are all human and make mistakes. As a wee lad, I saw my favorite baseball player (Gooden) wrestle with drug problems and my favorite basketball player (Magic) contract HIV through infidelity. I'm not sure if I cried either time, but I sure felt betrayed.

Still, having made a few mistakes in my life, I'd be willing to forgive Rincon.

Moral High Ground is simply a joke Batgirl made when her team started making fielding errors. In the past the Twins fielded beautifully so when other teams kicked the ball around, we could claim the moral high ground, even if the other team, you know, won. That's all. Here is the post in question.

http://www.bat-girl.com/archives/000760.html

Hey, thanks for the additional information, TribeScribe.

Again, because of my background, I tend to get tangled up in the legal aspects of drug testing policies, not the moral ones. I am sure that a part of the non-disclosure (what did they find?) has to do with medical confidentiality -- at least it does in the world of "real" work, and I'm sure that the players can be tested only for the substances that are specifically outlined in the collective bargaining agreement. To go beyond that scope would make for a lawsuit, the size of which even the owners of MLB couldn't afford. It would probably destroy baseball.

Also, most laws about drug testing are regulated by the states, not the Feds. Exceptions for safety and transportation workers, some others -- those are Fed regs with which employers must comply, and which I won't bore anyone with -- but who knows how those laws, and which ones, apply to MLB? It and Congress make up their own, anyway, and always have. The anti-trust exemption, etc. Maybe the disclosure thresholds are different as well.

Good point, Drake33, about the anti-stadium constituencies, of which there are many, latching onto this.

I can definitely see the strib anti-stadium letter writers latch on to this. That scares me. Marty and Krinkie in the house will definitely add "steroid-using 'role model'" in between "billionaire owner" and "millionaire players." Mr. Rincon will definitely be persona non grata in the local casual-fan circles.

I think we should ask some serious questions of Rincon's orthodontist.

Finally, let's hope Rincon reads this site and believes that his nickname is "boo" so when the catcalls come on his return, he thinks he's being cheered like Lew. And then he throws a 7-pitch inning with 2Ks.

My own comment reminds me...
Reusse mentioned Cuddy getting booed when coming to bat on Friday. Any chance those were lingering "Lews" from Ford's hits/walks?

BG-

Ha. Good (and funny) enough. Thanks for the explanation.

I think some people here are taking The Moral High Ground to new levels... being an actual MORAL high ground, which was not the original intent. by Batgirl's definition and desire, moral=defense, nothing more.

but at the same time, as has been stated, Minnesotans like to believe that our professional athletes are upstanding citizens who don't fit the mold of the stereotypical professional athlete, i.e. drug addicts, womanizers, boozers, etc. we know this is silly, but we choose to believe it anyway. I think this issue is hitting us so hard because it's popped the rose-tinted lenses out of our glasses and forced us to come to terms with the fact that bad things can happen even to Minnesota boys.

the Twins are America's Team, we like to tell ourselves. they epitomize the underdog, the guys who work hard for everything they earn, and they earn it honestly and fairly.

we want to continue believing that, but obviously, that's impossible. it's tough to face reality.

but I still believe that something is amiss here, because Juan Rincon does not seem to me the kind of guy who would pull something like this on purpose.

and amr, I was at the game on Friday, and I don't recal any boos for Cuddy. I cheered for him. if there were boos, then good for him for shutting the bastards up with two doubles!

I'm 22 years old and this makes me feel like an 8 year old who just learned that Superman is really Lex Luthor in a wig and cape.

I read somewhere (espn maybe?) the Rincon will make a statement before tommorrows game

So I guess we will have to wait until then

I heard them talking about that on ESPN baseball, I believe.

After cooling off and thinking it over, I've come to soften my initial reaction to this. I was pretty mad, and oddly, a little hurt at the news. If it were me, I'd want to be given another chance and I think Rincon should get another if indeed he is guilty of using a performance enhancer rather than being kicked off the team as I'd initially said.

If there were a second violation I'm not sure how I'd react, but he should get another shot to prove himself and hope he doesn't blow it.

3:30 tomorrow, I heard on 'CCO radio, he will make a statement.

Batgirl had a nice long post up about Boo, but it wasn't there for long. I'm afraid Bartolo Colon ate it...

Never mind, now it's back...

TUmbleweed ate Bartolo COlon.

I am very sad today, thinking about this. I don't know what to think, or to believe. I mean, of all the people on the team, Booberry?

Can Batgirl please post what he says tomorrow in his press conference? Those of us outside the range of WCCO would be massively appreciative.

And a note to Laurie - does your medication have similar effects to heroin? 'Cuz that could be fun... (kidding!)

-NYB

First off, I'm reserving judgment until Juan makes his statement tomorrow, and I encourage everyone else to do the same.

Also, for those who are already assuming this is iron-clad, here are a few thoughts to ponder:

1) Does the league make the banned substance list readily available for players? If so, one would think that in this day and age a copy of the list would be easier for us to come by. If not, then it isn't really fair to hold players to an absolute level of responsiblity in terms of knowing what substances are banned.

2) Seems to me that an inadvertant user is MUCH more likely to get caught. If you're cheating on purpose, you're going to go to great lengths to cover it up - and covering it up IS possible.

3) Giambi didn't have to test positive, he admitted it under oath. Bonds and McGwire are better examples for the argument. McGwire has been crucified, and in my view, unfairly. I'd be EXTREMELY reluctant to give Congress any ammo whatsoever under that environment. With guys like that, a positive or a negative answer can be twisted to mean whatever they want. You could answer NO all day and end up being thrown under the YES bus.

4) Ask any trainer to tell you what's in a substance, and you'll be lucky if HE reads the label. That's not a reliable source. To TRULY know what you're consuming, you need to send everything you consume to a lab first. That's just ridiculous.

5) Everyone's singing Bud Selig's praises, but the honest to God truth is that he's pushing a flawed system to save baseball's anti-trust exemption. If he was really acting in the best interests of the game, there'd be a lot more disclosure involved, here, as well as some semblance of due process - that means an investigation to verify the results and find the substance that caused the positive test. The player rebuttal is basically useless.

Moral of the story... the minute you starting thinking something can't happen to you, it very often will.

I would think the players union would never agree to any kind of policy if that included not informing it's members about what they cannot take. That would just be silly.

Now, what I don't understand is why MLB doesn't conform itself to the drugtesting policy of the International Olympique Comittee. There's a very clear and specific list of banned substances available, there's a solid protocol for taking urine samples, there's an appeal proces, and it's the policy that is used in the minor leagues I think (because players from the minors participate in the Olympics).
Plus, they take bloodsamples, which MLB doesn't do under the current policy. Which means you are not going to find things like HGH and the other 'designer' 'roids, because they don't show up in urine.

From what I know about the MLB policy is that it doesn't allow for a contra-sample to be tested ones a positive was found. That's just crazy.

on Baseball Tonight yesterday, they compared Juan's stats this year to his previous seasons combined... and the discrepancy... wow. it doesn't look good.

I really don't like this. I just spent the entire winter betrayed by the NHL... I don't want this, too.

I want to go back to my happy place... Saturday night, after I'd been witness to two great winning games in a row and had Johan to look forward to the next day, and everyone was natural and happy...

Steve Phillips on ESPN radio this AM said Rincon's suspension won't hurt the team and will make him "fresher" down the road this season.

Re: my source on weight. I got the 195 weight from TQStats (a fantasy league site). . . so I'm sure the Twins info is more up to date. At least he didn't get taller, too.

Yeah, I caught the Baseball Tonight bit on Rincon last night (after a very pointless diatribe about/against Ozzie Guillen in Outside the Lines). The picture they painted with stats is mixed. Sure, his numbers increased dramatically, but he was entering his prime surrounded by other great bullpen pitchers. I can see going from a consistent 4.5 to a consistent 2.5 without enhancers.

The part that really raises my eyebrow was the fact he played winterball too. A pitcher to go without any semblence of a break? That's gotta be killer on your system...I can easily see that leading to a few incidences when he may have tried something, perhaps steroids, to refresh his aching arm and keep him going. And like they said last night, maybe it just didn't get flushed out of his system in time for the MLB season.

If that's the case, then it works out two different ways. Yes he cheated, but not necessarily in the same manner or for the same reasons as your run-of-the-mill Giambis or Consecos. Maintenance instead of dominance.

Theories. That's what we have to work on until he comes out and owns up to his own poor decisions.

As a White Sox fan, allow me to take a slight bit of pleasure in knowing the monkey of having Albert Belle on my team has been lifted by this equalizing damning of an opponent's player. Finally we're not the clear-cut worst cheaters in the AL Central.

Although I'm afraid it'll take news that Johan Santana does crank and Lew Ford sacrifices babies to Ba'al in order to create parity for our sins of 1919, so I guess you're still in the clear over the long haul.

Pander... hahaha... Lew Ford sacrificing babies to Ba'al... and what does he get in return? "you shall be a big, lovable oaf, and everyone shall adore you for your dorkiness!"

thanks, you made me giggle. :)

Frankly I don't know what to think anymore. I'm against the use of Steroids, and for the last couple of years have said that those who use them should be punished.

I was once asked what I'd think if one of the Twins were to be caught. I answered truthfully, saying I'd be disappointed a would feel a little betrayed.

For years I've stood up for my team as an example of good baseball. No over-the-top payroll, no egomaniacal stars, and no steroids.

But now this comes up, and I can't help but feel exactly how I said I would.

How can I say ANYTHING about what should happen to other users when somebody from my own team has been caught. After saying Bonds or anybody else should be punished severly for use...I am torn.

I hate people who use steroids. I don't care who they are. And this just makes me even madder. Because now it's somebody that's connected to my team and my hometown. It's put fans in a bad place, and has tarnished the team image.

It doesn't matter what gets said now...Rincon will become the whipping boy for the rest of the year. He wasn't the first major-leaguer to get caught, but he was the first that made national headlines.

Now there won't be need to talk about Bonds, or McGwire, or Sosa...or Giambi..or Sheffield (even though the last two have ADMITTED to using) because now they've got Rincon to bash about it.

This whole thing STINKS if you ask me. How of all the players on all the teams...you catch the little set-up pitcher on the $60 million dollar payroll.

No kidding. I'm 6'3", 215, and I'm solid like a brick wall. Dropping 6 inches = THICK.

"Mike, this thread is about Rincon, not Giambi or Pudge -- neither of whom have been tested."

I wasn't the Mike this was posted in response to, but how do we know who's been tested? I think we only know who's tested positive. As far as I know they're not releasing a list of who's "clean" and the testing isn't done one whole team at a time. (The first time they came to test the Marlins they tested like 5 guys)

Someone asked earlier what kind of tests they use: they're urine tests only. I can't explain the specifics very well, but because it's not a blood test, they can't test for HGH and many other designer type drugs.

To Matt: I keep thinking of Rincon as little...because comparred to the Giambi's Sheffield's and Bonds', he IS.