Because none of the Bitch Sox run their mouths off to the media, so they'll be good role models?

I dunno, if El Presidente were God-forbid, acting jerky what could be done to stop him? I mean, he's arguably the most valuable player on the team.

Would management be willing to dump him because of it? Would the fans?

Seems that Doug M. acted like a jerk -- even getting into fights with rookies like Ford and Morneau. Would they have traded him if Morneau had been hitting .185 and Doug had been hitting .320? Doubtful.

Dougie Baseball - during the time in question - had kind of been getting the short end of the stick and ball by Gardy. It was clear he was being passed over in favor of younger, cheaper players, and the impending trade deadline (and the unfortunate way he was handled) must have presented a glaring red immediacy to every interaction he had with anyone in the clubhouse.

Dougie Baseball gave a lot of good years to the Twins organization, and provided a lot of good guidance to younger, less mature players (including Morneau). He was a great clubhouse influence, and I don't think we can equivocate Doug's few weeks of badditude to Randy Moss' 7 years of it.

There's a strange habit of non-Twins Minnesota teams to pay marque players huge sums of money, hoping to make franchises out of them. Kevin Garnett is an example of this, and it's worked - he has been great to the team, and to the state and it's fans. Randy Moss is another example, and it didn't work - he's an arrogant punk that cares more about himself than anything else. Sure he caught a lot of footballs, but when he was scoring touchdowns, he didn't bring the team - or the state - with him.

One of the things I like best about my homestate is Minnesota Nice(tm). I like that we treat people respectfully and that our interactions are genuine; and I particularly like how this translates into how we reflect upon public figures. I think the reason I like the Twins so much is that they're a microcosm of the character that our state values - hard work, humility, good manners, and friendship. Even the "loud mouths" reflect this. AJ may have been a wise-ass, but he was OUR wise-ass, and he never took it out on the fans or his team mates. It's my guess that even if Pohlad bucked up and spent some money on a brand name player like Delgado or Sosa, Minnesota would refuse to accept them unless they spoke Minnesotan Lingua Franca: humble self-deference.

Bottom line: Moss is a punk and I'm glad he's leaving (Oakland, I should know, will love him); and I hope Torii et al continue to keep clubhouse egos in check.

I agree with Haplo--if the players love us, we'll love them (i.e., A.J. being a wise-ass). One of the reasons we love El Presidente so much is because he doesn't act like a jerk. In many ways he exemplifies what we want our players to act like--decent, hard-working, caring individuals. He recognizes the hard work of the team behind him and that he doesn't win games on his own. He recognizes the fans love him, and he's playing because we're watching.

Randy Moss, as much as I loved watching him play when he was playing right, was a little kid who was never taught to act like an adult. (Or, that's how I saw him.) I'm glad we have Torii in the clubhouse teaching the kids coming through that they aren't little kids anymore.

Just Beth

It was a great article by Souhan and Mimiru - don't worry. Johan is probably the last person who will let success go to his head.

If you look back on it, the Twins have always had - be default or design - good leaders in the clubhouse. Their best performers have almost always been their best models for teammates. It's a culture embedded in the franchise that pays huge dividends. You'll see it again this year when the Yankees and other free-agent superstar laden teams underperform.

Baseball is a game where the best teams form a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. That won't happen with players whose egos can't bend to the greater good of the team. Fortunately, that will be a problem for other teams, not our boys.

One more thing: Batgirl, I predict that AJ will contribute to an attitude induced meltdown in the BitchSox clubhouse. They lost their most professional player and influence, Magglio Ordonez, to the Tigers. Now, Frank "Gimme Gimme Gimme" Thomas and AJ will run unchecked through the same club occupied by Mark "Sore Loser" Buehrle. Bad news for South Side fans. Bad news.

A couple of weeks of bad attitude for Doug? Come now. He had problems when he played for Tom Kelly five years ago. Part of Minnesota Nice(TM) is that people seem to be oblivious to the fact that their hometown heros are not much different than anybody else. The Twins do a good job of keeping it in the clubhouse.

Oh, Torii and Jacque, and probably half the team in 2000-1 chafed under the reins of Tom Kelly. Doug also made up with TK and earned the old manager's respect, which is why he stuck around rather than getting dumped like Todd Walker. Doug has an ego and likes to yap, but he did work hard, he cared deeply about his standards of performance, and he did put in time helping Morneau--even if he couldn't bow out gracefully in the end. (And being in that position, how many of us could?)

Doug's getting "not bowing out gracefully" down pat. And I'll bet they loved it in Boston when he was complaining about playing time. Remember what he said? "I was traded for a hall of famer."

I don't know what you're talking about. Whatever he said to the press about his playing time (and he wouldn't have been the only one--Kevin Millar whined about sharing time shortly after Doug came in, too), it didn't exactly derail the Red Sox pennant drive.

Doug needs attention. He wants to feel affection, that he's appreciated. When he's not playing well, he may need to feel affection all the more. I guess that's what happens to the son of a demanding father such as his dad. The boy craves hugs. I don't think that makes him a Bad Guy who is counterproductive to winning baseball games. Hell, most of those guys have large egos. If Gardy started platooning Jacque or pinch-hitting for Torii against RHP in the late innings, even if they deserved it, you don't think you'd see some pouting and tantrums? Don't let them kid you.

As for Randy Moss, he's an immensely talented football player, but apparently an immature person lacking discipline. I can see how some of his antics could be distracting, but I don't think his immaturity has anything to do with why the Vikings had the worst pass defense in the NFC last season. If he were a Twins All-Star hitting 40 HR and bringing in 100+ RBI, I'd live with the juvenile antics on his rap sheet. It might bug me a little to see him not run out groundballs, or kicking dirt on an umpire, but I wouldn't want him off the team because of it. And if he once pretended to moon Brewers or White Sox fans after hitting a clutch home run on the road, well, I think that might endear him to me even more.

Maybe what the Twins need, the final piece to the puzzle, is that one guy who believes he is bigger than the team, larger than life, who has the kind of ego to say "Get on my back, boys, I'll carry the show from here." The Twins used to have a guy like that, who turned out to be an egomaniac jerk in private even while his public persona was Sweet As Pie. It was good to have that kind of ego at the heart of the roster back in Kirby's day, wasn't it?

Dear BadAndy,

I'm not worried about Santana, I think he'll play hard and fight 100% for whatever team he plays on, but I was just comparing what you could argue as the best player on the Twins team. Santana acting up in public would be the equivalent.

Personally I also agree with frightwig in that sometimes you NEED a few of those super egos and to me at least, Moss was more valuable than any of the front office and definitely Tice. Many times more valuable than Tice.

In all that, I feel bad for Daunte who I think is a better QB than this team shows, and who gets a bit of a bum deal. Well... not too sorry considering his contract but still.

>>One of the things I like best about my homestate is Minnesota Nice(tm).

As someone who's Not From Here, I'd like to that this concept, Minnesota Nice (tm) is more myth than reality. At least, that's my perception as well as that of many in my circle of friends who are also Not From Here.

>>If he were a Twins All-Star hitting 40 HR and bringing in 100+ RBI, I'd live with the juvenile antics on his rap sheet.

That's part of the problem. In my less than tolerant opinion, it's the willingness, of the fans, the organizations, and society in general, to put up with stuff they wouldn't put up with in other individuals, say a teacher or police officer, or the person in the cube next to you, that creates these kinds of problems. Where would Randy Moss be if we didn't put up with that kind of stuff? What if, back in his high school criminal days, no one would touch him because of his actions? I know, I know, give the guy a second chance. But, how many chances? And don't tell me it was good that he got the opportunity to go to college and get an education, either.

There's a problem and it revolves around, in my opinion, the fact that there are no consequences for people's actions.

It's hard for me to point the finger at JJ in defense of Doug, but wasn't Jacque a little miffed that he got moved over to RF to make room for Stewart?

We're all prone to being a little whiny once in a while.

" In my less than tolerant opinion, it's the willingness, of the fans, the organizations, and society in general, to put up with stuff they wouldn't put up with in other individuals, say a teacher or police officer, or the person in the cube next to you, that creates these kinds of problems. Where would Randy Moss be if we didn't put up with that kind of stuff?"
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It bothers me more that Alberto Gonzalez could condone torture committed in the name of Americans, or say that the President may be above US law if he feels his ends justify the means, or say that he sees no problem with some search warrants not being subject to judicial review, and yet still could be confirmed as US Attorney General. Every day I read about things happening in our government that threaten our way of life and the ideals our nation was founded upon. There are serious issues about lack of accountability for our politicians, corporate heads, and big media today. These things deeply bother me.

Whether we'll put up with a football player who squirted water on a referee, pretended to moon Packers fans (who have a tradition of actually mooning the visiting teams' buses as they leave Lambeau), occasionally lacks focus and hustle on the field, and once had an altercation with a traffic director downtown, seems like small potatoes to me. He paid his fines and took more than his share of scrutiny and criticism for the things he did. He hasn't killed anybody, chased any women with a chainsaw, overdosed on crack, got busted for steroids, or lied to Congress, to the best of my knowledge. So I have better things to worry about than whether the best player on my favorite team never grew up and isn't a paragon of sainthood for the people of Minnesota to put on a pedestal.

Maybe if people weren't so obsessed with trivial issues like Randy Moss pretending to moon Packers fans or whether Brad Pitt cheated on Jennifer Aniston, we actually could pay attention to some issues that really have an affect on our lives.

I hate to say this, but somebody made a good point earlier... If a guy had 40 home run and 100 RBI potential, he'd be gone before he got there. The Twins have done a great job with their an organization that had one foot in the grave, but I'm hoping the contracts they gave to Radke and Santana are proof that a change is coming. I hope this for all Twins fans who deserve a return to the days when a star like Kirby Puckett could thrive on the field and off the field in Minnesota for his entire career.

Bringing it back to sports, frightwig, what you politely call an "altercation" was actually a man using his vehicle to push around a traffic officer, at best. At worst, a stoned guy trying to run over a traffic cop.

I don't expect any athlete to be "the paragon of sainthood." Nor do I want to put anyone on a pedestal to be worshipped. These people are human. What I'm saying is, had you, I, or Batgirl (ok, maybe not Batgirl) done the same thing, it would not have been treated so lightly. Furthermore, had you or I shown the disregard not only for our coworkers, but our customers and the authority in the office, we'd not only be fired, we'd have a hard time getting a job anywhere else in the industry.

You seem overly fond of the mooning incident as an example, which, in my opinion wasn't even an issue. It's all the other stuff.

For the record, according to the info I heard about Doug's alleged "fights with Lew Ford & Morneau", Doug was not the one who started them.

Everyone made up like good teammates when it was all over, so perhaps we need to let it go too?

mmmarkiep, I wasn't a witness to what happened between Randy and the traffic director that day. As somebody who commuted down that same corridor, however, I was very familiar with the woman, her typical behaviors, and the maddening nightmare of being trapped in that corridor by construction at the time. Many times I had seen the woman jump in front of vehicles to prevent them from turning or moving through the intersection, directly inviting confrontation. I had seen people honk horns and swerve to get around her. I know Randy Moss wasn't the only one to try what he did; in his case, apparently he just couldn't get around her, or she wouldn't move out of his way. I know from experience how angry I could feel getting stuck on one block for 20 minutes or more, and how sometimes when she'd blow her whistle, jump into a lane and glare, I could've been tempted to take her on myself. If she ever had actually got in my grill, on a bad day... I don't know. Maybe I could've taken a deep breath and held my cool, but I don't know.

As Chris Rock used to say, it doesn't mean that what he did was right... but I understand. He did the wrong thing, but I think the traffic director had some habits that invited that kind of incident, too. Anyway, he had his due process of justice, he paid his fine, his story got splashed all over the national news. That's enough for me.

Like I said, there are more corrupt people than Randy Moss in greater positions of power authority running amok these days. Another example: while L. Paul Bremer was in charge of the Coalition Authority in Iraq, $9 billion went missing. The Senior Aviation Official of the Coalition Authority, Franklin Willis, told Congress that officials like himself would carry around millions of dollars in cash to pay one agency or another--and on one occasion he and other men played football with $100,000 bricks of Ben Franklins. He had the pictures to prove it. He also testified that Iraqi Airways in late 2003 had ghost employees on its payroll and many who were paid to do no work (since the airline was inoperational at the time). Who is being held accountable for that kind of thing? Not Paul Bremer--the President gave him the Presidential Medal of Freedom for the job he did in Iraq. Hey, what's $9 billion to you and me, anyway?

After reading about things like that, I just don't have it in me to get worked up over Randy Moss' juvenile antics. None if it is really important to my life. As long as the guys on my favorite teams avoid committing violent felonies, their only behaviors relevant to me is what they do on the field.

Ok. We can agree to disagree. You're not going to change my mind and I'm clearly not going to change yours.