I read the same article and ... well, I was left .. I dunno... underwhelmed. The ads seem funny enough but ... I don't know. Urging fans to a game (by telling us fans of other teams think they're better than us, no less), and then taking away some of the better seats like lower GA, and then adding some great "Dugout Seats" and selling them to corporate sponsors, well.. I dunno. I see a strategy that seems like it's trying to shame the fans into the stands, when what they really want is corporate dollars.

I can't explain it other than to say I just got a bad feeling after reading the article. Like I'm not really sure the Twins organization values the fans. I dunno.

Looking at this from 10,000 feet . . . it's good that the Twins are actively marketing the team.

Here in DC, the Nationals haven't done jack yet . . . no Natsfest, no ads, nothing. But of course, there is no ownership group . . . and MLB has to be careful with the Orioles about 50 miles away.

That said, it would have been interesting to see the focus group reaction to these Twins ads.

For one thing, they are after casual fans . . . not batling-types. . . and I think we would all agree they need to expand the market.

They may be playing to the "underdog" image that all small-market cities seem to have. "Hey . . .we've got a good team . . . I'm sick of seeing Red Sox and Yankee hats at the mall . . . show some civic pride!"

So I am happy they have a marketing program, but the best marketing is a winning team.

Perhaps, not. Three straight Central Division titles and they haven't broken the 2 million mark since 1993. Maybe they should quit telling everyone how crappy the 'Dome is? You might increase the numbers of fans on nice days with a retractable roof stadium but then again ... maybe not. Let's face it, there are precious few nice Summer days. People may or may not want to spend them at a game.

I hate to say this but ... it's a regional thing, as far as I can tell. I'm not trying to offend anyone that's from here, but ... I've noticed the fans here are not really all that ... fanatical. Present company excluded, of course. It's just my perception that the majority of the fans in the area (of all sports, not just the Twins) are pretty casual fans. The kind that could take 'em or leave 'em. Casual fans.

Yeah, they need to be marketed to. But, really, who do you think is going to be reached by an ad saying that other fans think they're better than us? The casual fan probably couldn't care less. A Twins game is just one of many entertainment options. It's the more invested fan that is going to respond to marketing like that. The ones that already go to games. You want to engage the casual fan? You're not going to do it with ads. You'll do it with more giveaways, more themed nights a la minor league baseball, having a concert or something after the game, updating the food and beverage options and by making it a better all around entertainment experience. Of course, you risk alienating some of the actual BASEBALL fans that way. A new stadium would help draw all fans in the short term until the newness wore off.

In the long term, though, to attract the casual fan it's going to take an image makeover, not so much of team, but of the experience of going to a game and, more importantly of the organization. The casual fan doesn't hear as much about the players as they do about how the Twins and Carl Pohlad want close to half a billion tax dollars for a new stadium. Carl Pohlad and the Twins want to contract the team. Carl Pohlad and the Twins say they can't make ends meet in the Metrodome. The Twins and their billionaire owner want your money and can't make ends meet and want to get rid of the team. Oh, yeah, and Santana, of the Twins, won a Cy Young Award. That kind of image problem isn't going to be marketed away anytime soon.

Ticket prices for Twins games are more than reasonable, the Twins have solid promotions every year, bang their head aginst a brick wall marketing the team and Terry Ryan has built a exciting, contending team with one hand tied behind his back.

And yet... they finished 24th in attendance last year. Worse yet they were outdrawn the Brewers last year. THE BREWERS!

Miller Park or no, a good Twins team should never be out drawn by such a pathetic, laughingstock of an organization.

Meanwhile, Minnesotans seem more than willing to put up with the childish, unprofessional antics of Randy Moss, an underachieving Viking team, and a carpetbagging Owner who threatens to move the team every year despite selling out every game and having every home game televised.

Me thinks it's the Twins who get the shaft here.

Um, this line "A new stadium would help draw all fans in the short term until the newness wore off."

Should be followed by "Then, you'd be hearing about how the Twins can't make ends meet in the Dayton Dome or whatever they're going to call it and we'd start all over again."

Stiff, you've got to know your market. In this one, you've got to attract the casual fan. A winning team isn't enough to do it. As for the assertion that they have solid promotions, I'd tend to disagree, but I'm ok with that.

The Twins outdraw the Vikings;

1.75 million fans vs 520,000. Yeah, per game, the Vikings rule, but you really can't compare the two. One plays primarily in the winter and one primarily in the summer. One owns the suites one doesn't. One has a national television contract worth over a billion dollars and a comprehensive revenue sharing plan, one doesn't.

Might as well compare the Twins to the defunct Northstars. That is a better comparison, but severely dated. It's an ugly situation, which the Twins are PARTIALLY responsible for.

I realize all sports these days are about the "casual" fan

I'm wondering what fans see in the Vikings over the Twins these days?

How do the Milwaukee Brewers get 2 million fans out for one of the most dreadful products in professional sports?

While there are more casual fans, I find it hard to believe that people want promotions over an exciting, winning team.

I am a Minnesotan, but I'm baffled. What do people want?

I have to concur with Mmmarkiep that the Twins run some pretty lame promotions, or at least allow some lame ones. A keychain with a Twins logo on one side and an ad for the movie hotline on the other? A yellow car flag not with a Twins logo or anything remotely Twins related but instead the TCF logo and a cartoon picture of a dog with some obvious pun to go with it (thank God I forgot what the text was)? These are two of the hokey promotions I remember from last season. I understand they can't all be winners, but could they at least have some thought put into them?

The Twins couldn't make it any more obvious that they're just selling the right for these companies to directly market to the fans coming through the turnstiles.

The only promotion I made a point of going to the games for were the nights they gave away the old Twins schedule posters, which once I can get ahold of the one I'm missing I plan to frame and hang up.

>>While there are more casual fans, I find it hard to believe that people want promotions over an exciting, winning team.

That's my perception and I'm sticking to it! ;-) Seriously, though, I agree with Drake33 that the comparison doesn't make too much sense. There are a lot of variables. Besides the fact that football is still the undisputed king of spectator sports draws. Less home games, more demand, too.

Football has fireworks, too. And cheerleaders. And less possibility for lulls. It's just a different sport. Have you ever been to a Vikings game where people got bored and started making paper airplanes to try to fly onto the field? Me, neither. That's happened numerous times within my view at Twins games. Don't get me wrong, BASEBALL fans appreciate and will support a winning team. Some will support a team win or lose. But, we're not talking about baseball fans. Or even sports fans. We're talking about spectators, casual fans, people looking for something to do. THOSE are the people that the Twins need to fill the seats, and those are the people that will go to a game to see fireworks afterwards, or a concert. They'll go to get a bobblehead or a bat or a jersey. They'll go less grudgingly (which means more often) with their baseball fan friends, spouses, or family because they can get a Juicy Lucy or a BW3 wings or Taco John's or Culver's or ...whatever.

Besides that, you make going to a game an entertaining EXPERIENCE, instead of just going to a game, and the value of those corporate tickets goes up, too. A sales guy that can't find any clients that want to go to a game makes those tickets pretty worthless.

Skorch, which one are you missing? I have one at home I don't really have any attachment to. I don't remember which but could check it out.

Skorch wrote: I have to concur with Mmmarkiep that the Twins run some pretty lame promotions, or at least allow some lame ones. A keychain with a Twins logo on one side and an ad for the movie hotline on the other? A yellow car flag not with a Twins logo or anything remotely Twins related but instead the TCF logo and a cartoon picture of a dog with some obvious pun to go with it (thank God I forgot what the text was)? These are two of the hokey promotions I remember from last season.

Not to mention the Harry Potter buttons (sponsored by Scholastic Press) that they handed out at a Twins-White Sox game I went to 2 summers ago. The least they could do now is hand out "Spilling Clarence" buttons. : )

Seriously though, one great thing the ChiSox have done is market the team, especially the past season and a half. Bobblehead nights, kids run the bases on Sundays (with $1 tickets), Turn Back The Clock games and clever print ads like this one https://home.comcast.net/~jjav829/V2T59.BMP
in the local rags.

They've managed to differentiate themselves from the Team Up North by selling a real family baseball experience, even if they don't play in a "shrine" of a stadium like their counterparts do. The Twins are a fun team to watch, and their tickets are damned close to the cheapest in the majors...the front office types need to capitalize on that.

Then again, it would be a lot more fun on a summer night to see the Twins playing in an outdor stadium on the banks of the mighty Mississip', so who knows.

BitchSoxPride,

Ilk

She-Ra - The one I'm missing is the one they gave out August 6th - The 1966 poster. If you have that one and you'd be willing to part with it I'd be exceptionally grateful.

Ilk - The Twins still do bobbleheads of course, which will attract an unfortunate number of people (though not all) who show up in line overnight to make sure they snag one and then leave as quick as they can "for fear a baseball game will break out" to paraphrase Pat Reusse. They run a similar promotion where kids get to run the bases after a game, I think on Sundays.

It's not that I feel promotions should be the reason anyone goes to a game, if that's the only reason you're going you're not a fan. Nor do I think promotions are in the "top 5" list of things the Twins could do differently that would improve attendance. But still, at the same time I don't want to be insulted by crappy giveaways who's only purpose is to tell me who to call if I want to re-finance my home and give the cleanup crew something to pick up after a game.

Skorch writes:

It's not that I feel promotions should be the reason anyone goes to a game, if that's the only reason you're going you're not a fan. Nor do I think promotions are in the "top 5" list of things the Twins could do differently that would improve attendance

What should they do? Is the stadium a big factor?

Sox fans bitch and whine that the reason they never go to games is because their team doesn't win. You guys win...so what's the reasoning?

(Just curious is all)

BitchSoxPride,
Ilk

Go to any sports venue and just about any giveaway is going to have a sponsor attached to it. And since the Twins do a lot of the same promotional things that most of the other teams do, how do the Twins at least get $2.3 million fans into the Dome to watch a product of much higher quality than many of the teams outdrawing them?

I know football is a different animal but in the late 80's and early 90's, the Twins held their own with the Vikings. Now there seems to be no contest.

Okay, just sticking to baseball, the Twins finished still 24th in attendance. That's a shame for such a good product.

In addition to trashing the dome until people agreed that, yeah, they rather wouldn't like to spend a nice evening in that place, I think the club (and Selig) also has spent too much time telling people that teams like the Twins can't really compete with the large-market clubs. The message sinks in after awhile; and it's confirmed when they see Pohlad offer to fold up the club before the 2003 season, when they see the team get overmatched by New York in the playoffs, and every offseason when Terry Ryan's primary goal is just to control his roster attrition.

I think it also hurts to have a home schedule loaded with low-budget, losing teams from the AL Central, but there's not much the marketing folks can do about that.

To attract the casual sports fan, the club should stop talking about how difficult it is to compete without a new stadium. (I know that Terry Ryan and Gardy's staff have a "no excuses" policy, but the message still filters out through other channels.) And the front office has to stop ACTING like it has low expectations, like it has a successful offseason if the club can just retain Radke and Jones, like it's content just to win the AL Central again.

I think casual fans would start to perk up if they saw Pohlad spend money like he really cared, and if they saw the GM bring in a quality free agent sometime. Even on the present budget, there are ways that Terry Ryan might have signed a high-profile free agent as well as keeping Radke this winter. Instead, he was content just to maintain as much of the status quo as he could afford. It's a nice and safe plan, and will probably bring another AL Central banner in 2005. But safe and more of the same isn't going to grab anyone who wasn't already buying tickets.

If they're serious about pulling more fans in, the front office has to get out of its little box to reach them. Act aggressively. Make some bold moves. Show people they're in it to win it, and not content just to make a nice showing.

Personally, I think Minnesotans made up their own mind that the Dome was a lousy baseball facility.

Bud Selig? You would think that fans would take pride in the fact that the Twins made him eat his "abberation" words not stay away from the park because of it

Pohlad- Yes, contraction was a disgusting thing but Minnesota won the right to keep the team and Terry Ryan has built people a contender. Pohlad does continue to add to payroll when he has a reason to cut payroll. I also think that Pohlad would allow the budget to increase if the Twins got a 400,000 spike in attendance. By staying away from the ballpark for such a quality team, fans and media in other towns are beginning to wonder if Pohlad and Selig's intentions were'nt right.

Division opponents-Why should anyone care whether the rest of the teams suck? That sure is'nt the Twins problem. I could care less whether The Sox, Tigers,Indians and Royals ever get their act together. The Twins have more economic excuses not to compete than the White Sox, Tigers and Indans do. Garbage teams like the Devil Rays need opponents to draw fans. The Twins should'nt need that.

Economics-The Yankees, while doing nothing illegal, still have the most unfair advantage in all of pro sports. And I don't expect Pohlad to lose his shirt on the baseball side of the ledger keeping within spitting distance of them or the Red Sox for that matter.

If the Brewers, who also play in a football hotbed, can draw 2 million while putting out a garbage product for the longest time, The Twins should be able to draw more than 1.9 million for a good one.

Stiff,

The Metrodome is the same building that once welcomed 3 million Twins fans in a season, and used to display a banner proudly proclaiming, "We Like This Place!" Maybe Minnesotans didn't need help in deciding that they didn't like it so much after all (though who knows about Iowans, Dakotans, Canadians, and those nutty folk from upper Wisconsin), but I don't think it helps the club draw fans to Twins games when at the same time they have Dick & Bert moaning about how they wish they could be outside. It's like being invited to a party, while the host reminds you that his house is cramped, you're allergic to his dogs, and he's low on funds this month so BYOB.

Division opponents - I don't think I'm alone in feeling bored with a schedule that seems to feature the Tigers, Royals, or Indians in rebuilding mode in nearly every homestand throughout the season. Yeah, I like to see my team, but lately some of those intradivisional matchups have had all the appeal of preseason Gophers basketball games against St. Cloud State, Central Michigan, and Lipscomb. It takes two to tango or make a good fight. If I have money for just one or two games a month, I'm going to wait for the most attractive matchups. When I see the Tigers on the schedule for the third time in two months, I'm probably staying home or doing something else that weekend. Maybe I'm weird, but the attendance figures indicate that a lot of fans feel the same as I do.

Selig's "aberration" comment annoyed me as much as anyone, and I'm glad that the Twins' 2002 division title proved not to be just a one-year blip, but has the team showed the casual fan that it truly should be taken seriously as a World Series contender? The last couple years, it seems like every time the Twins have hosted a marquee matchup with a team from outside the division, which draws a big crowd, they fall flat, sending fans home with a sour impression and giving Reusse an excuse to tell everyone else about how overmatched the Twinkies looked against the big dogs. We've seen some plucky efforts from the team in the playoffs the last few years, but I don't think they've convinced many people that the World Series was almost in their grasp. They were underdogs in each postseason series, and each year they've been ultimately overmatched, decisively, by a better team.

OK. I applaud the good effort, but going into this offseason I wondered what the front office might do to improve and get over that hump. Frankly, I'm disappointed in the plan (re-sign Radke, let Koskie and Guzman go, bring in nobody significant, hope the youth steps up and we get better performances from players like Lohse, Rivas, and Jones). Why should I expect the casual fan to be impressed by yet another winter in which the Twins are not players in the primary free agent market?

I have seen plenty of people on Twins message boards say that MLB is broken, and the Twins hardly stand a chance against the rich clubs, because of the league's economics and the Twins' lack of activity in the free agent market. If fans passionate enough to post on message boards feel that way, what of the casual fan who only gets interested in those Twinkies if the team is playing well once the school year is out?

Pohlad hasn't increased his payroll budget the last couple years, and going into the offseason Terry Ryan let everyone know that he didn't expect to have any more money to spend than last year. If he does get any budget increase by the time he's done this offseason, it's only because the club took in an extra $4m from MLB's new deal with XM Radio. The owner is not spending as if he cares whether the team gets better this year, or if anyone else might get excited about the team going into the season. His payroll freeze sends me the message he's content with winning the Central, bowing out in the ALDS, and drawing 1.9 million fans.

I don't believe Pohlad would "lose his shirt," or even lose money, if he boosted payroll by $10-20m. He claimed to break even last year, which probably means he made a tidy profit. And it's his right to be content with a tidy profit and winning the Central, but don't complain that the casual fan isn't pumped up and filling the ballpark. Carl wants 400-thousand more fans in the dome? Spend the money to show how much you care. Give people a reason to feel like the product is improved, more exciting, and something they don't want to miss. A business that waits for the customers to come in before investing in its product & sales is doing things backwards. And I believe that a business which tries to appeal to its customers by guilting them into supporting the company is going to have hard luck with that plan, too.

You can't invest the money unless you have the money coming in.

The Mets did'nt spend crazy money out of the blue. They spent because they got their own TV. network Something that fell apart in Minnesota.

The Phillies spent a lot of money beause of the windfall from a new stadium. Something that can't get off the ground in Minnesota

The Red Sox spent more money because they had more money via monster seats, concerts on Fenway lawn, beefed up TV deal Oh, and they charge the highest ticket prices in the Major leagues. The Twins prices are among the lower half

If Pohlad spent an extra 20mil. he would'nt lose money? Not so sure. An extra 20 mil. would put them in the Cardinals payroll neighborhood. the difference? The Cardinals annually draw 3 mil. per year and have a stadium on the way.

While the rodent basketball team schedules the likes of Central Michigan and Jan Brady St. University, the Twins can do nothing about their crappy division mates and it's a shame they have to pay for it at the gate. The Twins had 3 concecutive shutouts in July over KC last year. I would think that would be Twins fans would be proud of. Maybe that's just me.

The Twins were'nt a major part of the free agent market? Join the club. They're in the majority. 80% In fact the Twins did a better job of cutting their losses than most (See: Oakland and Houston) I know it's not what people want to hear, but it's a big sign that MLB economic system has major flaws. Just look at the same 5 teams that are heavily involved each year. Even vs. teams that occasionally get involved

I'd like to believe that the economic system is what is keeping fans away, but that too is hard to believe when the Yankees and Red Sox draw more than any other teams that come to Minnesota.

The Twins give their customers more bang for their buck than most franchises

And a lot of cities would trade what they have for what Minnesota has.

Even if you or Twins executives believe that most fans around the country would be thrilled to support a Little Team That Could overcome all odds to win 3 AL Central titles, it's just a fact of the matter that in this market the product as it exists seems to have hit the limit of its appeal--if raw attendance at home games is the barometer. Now, the Twins can blame the customer and try to guilt people into supporting the team by appealing to our civic duty and whatnot, or they can try something different to spark the casual fans' imaginations and generate more excitement about the team. It seems their plan is to throw blame & guilt on the customer, and I don't expect that to go over so well.

Businesses invest money in themselves on speculation that it will result in increased sales and revenue, all the time. If you're president of a bicycle company that's pulling in a disappointing market share, do you wait for sales to magically improve before investing in R&D, product improvements and marketing? You gotta spend money to make money, as they say.

You mentioned that the Cardinals have a new stadium deal in place, but that didn't get all hammered out until the past year. For several years prior, the plans were in a legislative limbo and didn't escape until the Cards brought in more private sources of funding, as I recall. Meanwhile, the club executives didn't sit back and wait for all the goodies to fall in their laps before beefing up the roster. They were pushing payroll above $80m even before the stadium deal was finalized, in expectation of that investment helping push support for the ballpark plans, which would generate greater return after the new park opened.

All I'm suggesting is that Pohlad could've investest at least another $10m in his payroll, pushing it above $65m (which is only about league-average), with the directive to his GM to land a big free agent who could help the team as well as boost pre-season ticket sales. Whatever cost he might not recoup immediately at the gate, I think he could expect to get back if the signing(s) helped get a stadium deal finished.

As it is now, what do the Twins have to sell to the casual fan who isn't already won over by the plucky overachievers with 3 AL Central banners on the wall? The guy who reads the paper in the morning, works his 8 hours, and comes home to spend his winter evenings watching basketball, hockey and CSI: Reality TV, what are the Twins selling to get him excited about baseball before the NBA playoffs are done?

It's not lower ticket prices. It's not any exciting new players; they can't even boast about a new deal to secure our Cy Young. The only news about Santana is that the club has tried to lowball him. The casual fan knows they let Koskie and Guzman go, and the new SS is a cheap nobody. Maybe he's heard the word that Cuddyer will be the new 3B, or he's heard about them signing a Tigers reject. He might be a Justin Morneau fan, but he's also learned over the years not to put too much stock in prospects until they've really done it for a few years. He's probably optimistic about the St. Paul boy, but who knows about that knee.... In short, there's a lot of uncertain mystery about the team going into spring training, and not a lot of concrete good news to herald. I think you'd have to be already amongst the converted to be really excited about the Twins right now. For the casual fan, who generally thinks of baseball as a pleasant diversion until the Vikings break training camp, I don't see much reason why he would be eager to jump on the bandwagon now if he wasn't on it already.

Considering what the Twins have done this winter, I predict the fans could turn out to see Johan from the get-go, but otherwise business will be slow in April and into mid-May. Crowds could build up if Mauer & Morneau are having a great spring and the team is playing well, but summer business will depend on how the team is playing when the kids first get out of school. If the team is hot then, the gate may finally get above 2 million, after all. If the team again has its June Time of Sucking, get ready to relive the depression, and more hand-wringing in September about why fans aren't supporting the team better. In any case, I think the casual fans will go into the season determined to Wait and See. Twins management has not given that group any reason to feel otherwise this winter.

Really? Do we really want to be one of those teams that chases names in the free agent market? Seriously? If we're voting, put me down for a Hell-M-Fing-NO. I can certainly think of more free agent saviors turned overpriced crap stories than I can success stories. You really think the casual fan would care enough to come to the park because of some free agent signing? ESPECIALLY one that we could pull in at a suggested $10 Mil? I doubt it.

Pohlad could add that $15 or 20 mil. and fans are going to be in a wait and see mode.

While it probably is'nt good stratagy to try and guilt people into coming to the ballpark, I don't blame the Twins and the media covering the sports scene in Minnesota for at least asking what gives? What do people want? What do the pathetic Brewers have that the Twins don't?

>>What do the pathetic Brewers have that the Twins don't?

No other sports options? A really nice stadium with real food and beverage options? A different sports culture?

Things are more spread out, but there are plenty of sports options in cheeseville. And, when you think about it, during the summer months, the Twins don't have much more to compete with than the Brewers as far as sports goes.

Stadium issues are a different topic, But no matter where the Twins are playing, Minnesotans would not put up with 22years without playoff baseball, 12 concecutive losing seasons, 5 straight last place finishes and sticking the tax payers with the bill for a new stadium. Nor should they.

But this is a good Twins team were talking about. A franchise that does a lot with what they have. And a model that even the Brewers are trying to pattern themselves after.

And a horrible Brewers team outdraws them.

I guess it must be the sports culture.

>>And, when you think about it, during the summer months, the Twins don't have much more to compete with than the Brewers as far as sports goes.

Well, there's that thinking again. There might not be much to compete with as far as sports goes, but as far as entertainment goes, well, there's plenty of competition. And that's where I come back to again. Minneapolis is not Milwaukee. The people here are just as interested in the Uptown Art Fair as a Twins game or a round of golf or anything else going on during the Summer.